Originally posted by travestyny
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WRONG! They were talking about threshold substance!!!! We BOTH agreed that it was out of scope but you like to hang onto that discussion now!!!
KABOOOOOM!!!!
You are confused.
This is not a discussion on Threshold substance where there is a single criteria based on the amount of the substance found.
This is not a threshold as you are thinking (ie not threshold substance).
This is a threshold test to determine if there is evidence of the presence of synthetic EPO. Also, for EPO testing there can be more than 1 criteria to evaluate the presence of EPO. In some cases they have 3 criteria and also can state that “additional evidence” can be used.
Unfortunately you are stuck on "threshold substance" but EPO is tested differently!!!
To add to your confusion, the 80% threshold test does not mean that at 75% there is no synthetic EPO. There may more than likely be but the chance of false positive increases as the number goes down. Dr Catlin concluded that even at 68% threshold it was fair game and the chance of false positive is still low enough.
Here in a case, Dr Catlin testifies and calls it a threshold!!!

The A confirmation conclusion indicated from all 3 criteria that Sbeih's sample was positive for EPO. The BAP was 86%. In fact the technology present at the UCLA Lab is so advanced that the Dr Catlin testified that the threshold could be even lower than the current 80% without risking a false-positive"
Dr Catlin tested using 3 criteria but they:
UCLA Lab (Dr Catlin) applied the 80% BAP to take advantage of the CAS precedence ....BAP of 86% in Sbeih's sample.
Decision:
The panel decides:
A doping violation occurred ....
Dr Catlin tested using 3 criteria but they:
UCLA Lab (Dr Catlin) applied the 80% BAP to take advantage of the CAS precedence ....BAP of 86% in Sbeih's sample.
Decision:
The panel decides:
A doping violation occurred ....
So Gatlin testified that the current threshold test was 80%!!!! but can be lowered ....

So lets see.
Dr Catlin, Dr Segura and others are supposedly wrong as per Travestyny and Travestyny is right? .... or Travestyny is all mixed up???
KADABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
2 & 3)
Why did I bring up this case about BAP?
May I remind you, it was you who brought it up back then to Willy Wanker and it was YOU who brought this up now!!!! KABOOOOOM!!!!
So now the WADA expert is wrong in calling it a threshold or is it that you are all mixed up!!!!
Furthermore, the WADA expert called it threshold years after that case that you brought up!!!
4) ABP testing results and other tests are mentioned in the EPO documentation. That is what our bet was about. You just agreed that ABP testing has threshold tests!!!
You instead DEFLECTED back then and just couldn't say it!!!!
Read below for more ......
KABOOOOOM!!!!
5)
IT NEVER SAYS THAT THEY USE THE ABP FOR EPO TESTING YOU MORON
travestyny
travestyny
WRONG AGAIN!!!
Biological Passport approach to EPO detection is to count the number of immature red cells in te blood. This rises in a characterisitic way with EPO supplementation and the effect is detectable for several weeks. It is also possible to look at iron metabolism. HB contains iron and the body has well-developed transport and storage systems for iron so that enough is available to constantly produce the red cells we need. If EPO stimulates red cell production then the levels of the iron storage protein, ferritin, fall.
Haematological Module
The Haematological Module collects information on Markers of blood doping. This Module aims to identify the Use of Prohibited Substances and/or Prohibited Methods for the enhancement of oxygen transport or delivery, including the ***** Use of ESAs ***** and any form of blood transfusion or manipulation.
In addition to identifying the use of ESAs included under section S2 of the Prohibited List (Peptide Hormones, Growth Factors, Related Substances and Mimetics), the Haematological Module ..............
The following Markers are considered within the ABP Haematological Module:
HCT: Haematocrit
HGB: Haemoglobin
RBC: Red blood cell (erythrocyte) count
RET%: Reticulocytes percentage
RET#: Reticulocyte count
MCV: Mean corpuscular volume
MCH: Mean corpuscular haemoglobin
MCHC: Mean corpuscular haemoglobin concentration
RDW-SD: Red cell distribution width (standard deviation)
IRF: Immature reticulocyte fraction
OFFS: OFF-hr Score
ABPS: Abnormal Blood Profile Score (ABPS)
The Haematological Module collects information on Markers of blood doping. This Module aims to identify the Use of Prohibited Substances and/or Prohibited Methods for the enhancement of oxygen transport or delivery, including the ***** Use of ESAs ***** and any form of blood transfusion or manipulation.
In addition to identifying the use of ESAs included under section S2 of the Prohibited List (Peptide Hormones, Growth Factors, Related Substances and Mimetics), the Haematological Module ..............
The following Markers are considered within the ABP Haematological Module:
HCT: Haematocrit
HGB: Haemoglobin
RBC: Red blood cell (erythrocyte) count
RET%: Reticulocytes percentage
RET#: Reticulocyte count
MCV: Mean corpuscular volume
MCH: Mean corpuscular haemoglobin
MCHC: Mean corpuscular haemoglobin concentration
RDW-SD: Red cell distribution width (standard deviation)
IRF: Immature reticulocyte fraction
OFFS: OFF-hr Score
ABPS: Abnormal Blood Profile Score (ABPS)
Here is a case that concludes with strong evidence the use of EPO by way of Biological Passort tests
"See, e.g., IAAF v SEGAS & Kokkinariou, CAS 2012/A/2773, award dated 30 November 2012
(http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sit...ments/2773.pdf), para 114 ('association of high haemoglobin with low reticulocytes is a strong evidence of artificial inhibition of reticulocyte formation caused by the suspension of an ESA (or, less likely, by reinfusion of multiple blood bags). It is an indicator of the so-called OFF phase, which is seen when an ESA has been suspended one to three weeks before, such as is
observed in doped athletes before important competitions. When the ESA is stopped, hemoglobin remains high for at least two to three weeks, depending on the dosage, while reticulocytes are reduced because the high hemoglobin inhibits endogenous EPO production')."
(http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sit...ments/2773.pdf), para 114 ('association of high haemoglobin with low reticulocytes is a strong evidence of artificial inhibition of reticulocyte formation caused by the suspension of an ESA (or, less likely, by reinfusion of multiple blood bags). It is an indicator of the so-called OFF phase, which is seen when an ESA has been suspended one to three weeks before, such as is
observed in doped athletes before important competitions. When the ESA is stopped, hemoglobin remains high for at least two to three weeks, depending on the dosage, while reticulocytes are reduced because the high hemoglobin inhibits endogenous EPO production')."
KADABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
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