Joe Louis is overrated

[Kid Achilles]

That may be so, Steward's opinion on lighting, but Lewis made weight training an important part of his regiment. He was definitely a heavy lifter, remember a clip of him doing reps with 300 lbs. He also played football as a youth and clearly lifted for that.

Tyson they say never lifted but I don't believe it. Unless he was on some kind of anabolic steroid. Very difficult to look like that while doing all that cardio without weight training.

[Abe Attell]

What about Bo Jackson and Herschel Walker?

Walker and Jackson were both around 220 when they went to college, and it wasn't like they had the money to buy steroids.


Like I said, if Tyson was naturally around 210-215, like Sam, 220 pounds is nothing

For Tyson not lifting, I am not so sure about that: I read in interview a while back with a young Tyson saying he doesn't really lift, but they do have him do one overall weight-lifting exercise, like the power-clean.

There was also a boxer, can't remember his name that used to work with Tyson on occasion, that said Tyson didn't lift, but he thought he should have because it was a disadvantage not to. Not so sure how accurate the article was.

[Abe Attell]

[Pork Chop]

Walker grew up on a farm tossing around huge bails of hay- which is pretty conducive to producing really huge, athletic people.

I also think you'd be suprised at how many high school and college athletes roid- especially in football. Money wasn't an issue, half the time assistant coaches would provide it for the price of takin a girl out to dinner.
My freshman year of college I was friends with a 2nd string offensive lineman who told me about the trips to mexico, the pills usually reserved for livestock, and how widespread it really was in the locker room.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Your thinking the wrong way Abe,
Your thinking of old time HW's being similar to modern HW's.....Now a days a fighter will go to the gym work out 2-4 hours, get off and go to a club or go home and relax....In that case in order to get big they'd need to do lifting because besides cardio and whatever kind of boxing training doing they're not doing anything to get big.

Back in the time of Johnson and such you had HW's would train as a second profession, those guys were big because of there careers. They'd be construction workers, or work in circus', Farms, etc...Thats what got them big not weight lifting or steroids...

Its the kind of work they did that made them fit there frame...unlike today..

[SABBATH]

That may be so, Steward's opinion on lighting, but Lewis made weight training an important part of his regiment. He was definitely a heavy lifter, remember a clip of him doing reps with 300 lbs. He also played football as a youth and clearly lifted for that.

Tyson they say never lifted but I don't believe it. Unless he was on some kind of anabolic steroid. Very difficult to look like that while doing all that cardio without weight training.

Kid Achilles, have you ever done any acting? In your avetar you look like the Napolean Dynamite guy....

[Abe Attell]

Your thinking the wrong way Abe,
Your thinking of old time HW's being similar to modern HW's.....Now a days a fighter will go to the gym work out 2-4 hours, get off and go to a club or go home and relax....In that case in order to get big they'd need to do lifting because besides cardio and whatever kind of boxing training doing they're not doing anything to get big.

Back in the time of Johnson and such you had HW's would train as a second profession, those guys were big because of there careers. They'd be construction workers, or work in circus', Farms, etc...Thats what got them big not weight lifting or steroids...

Its the kind of work they did that made them fit there frame...unlike today..

What do you think "Genes" are?

African-Americans have good genes, not all, but many that are naturally muscled from their ancestor’s years of heavy labor.

For Bo Jackson, we are talking about a dirt-poor kid, said by others to have always been naturally big and did not lift weights in high school.

Jim Brown was not lifting weights with his team, but might have on his own, not sure...he was about 6'2, 230, around or the same height and weight as his father.


I think Tyson's alleged father was even a construction work at one time.

You also have to consider that kids in poverty stricken neighborhoods, although sometimes can be malnourished, can have higher hormone levels in their system while growing up, into their adult years, from the environment; being that of a "only the strong survive"/war zone.
The food eaten as well, contributes to it.

Tyson was eating well, working-out hard in a sport that requires you to be the best to survive. There is also another psychological direction you can take, which I am not sure about, but just for discussion: I heard that sometimes if you put it into your mind through repetition, that you have to be this, sometimes it can come true. So for example, if somebody sees that you are naturally a big kid, and tells you, "you can become the Heavyweight Champion of the World", through constant reminders through speech, visual (which is watching fights of the heavyweights), and thought, you grow into what you feel you must become because if you don't, you will die.
Of course, you can tear this down, but a small part of it could be true, especially if you have the genetic potential to start as your foundation.


It does not mean it is 100% positive that Tyson and others were not on steroids, but you have to give him the benefit of the doubt considering that he was big as a young kid, and trained by "Old School" trainers. If Tyson was on steroids, then Cus had to of known about it. Tyson would have been put on them in his mid teen years since he was already big at that point. Judging by Tyson's head size by the time he was 13, he was lucky to have a 200+-pound body because it would of looked ridiculous if he did not.

Also look at Tyson's body when he was with Rooney, and then look at his body when he came out of prison and continued his career: It was alleged he never lifting during his prime, but is known he did it after he came out of prison. His muscles do look different in that in his prime, he was not as tight/compact as later. I always wondered if those that say lifting weights could hurt your stamina since either Tyson never trained his cardio the same again after he left Rooney, or the weight lifting affected his stamina.
Maybe it was from rust, but his punches were not as fluid as they were in his prime.

Maybe he did lift weights in his prime, but wouldn't it have been better known if he did?

I guess you could argue that they kept it "hush, hush"

You also have to remember this: If a 200+ pound person is doing Push-ups, pull-ups (both arms and back versions), and squats, then it is still some form of lifting to increase or keep muscle on.


Has there been anything said by Teddy Atlas or Kevin Rooney on the matter?
Teddy wrote a book, did he mention anything about it?


In addition, if he did, it does not mean he was on steroids. However, your point was he could not have kept that much muscle on his body with the cardio he was doing, so if he did lift weights it could explain why he was able to keep the weight on, so fair enough.

If I can remember correctly, I think it was in a magazine interview, where Tyson said he carried weights to run up and down the steps of his building in New York...this was an after prison interview, so I am not sure if he did it in his days with Rooney.

There is always the possibility though

[Abe Attell]

Walker grew up on a farm tossing around huge bails of hay- which is pretty conducive to producing really huge, athletic people.

I also think you'd be suprised at how many high school and college athletes roid- especially in football. Money wasn't an issue, half the time assistant coaches would provide it for the price of takin a girl out to dinner.
My freshman year of college I was friends with a 2nd string offensive lineman who told me about the trips to mexico, the pills usually reserved for livestock, and how widespread it really was in the locker room.

I know some things.

But it seems in today's world that if you have muscles, especially if you are over 200lbs, you are on steroids; everybody is in question in today's world.

I have known people growing up that were "naturally" big/musceld, ripped, but weren't on steroids.

One guy I knew used to train in Martial Arts, but didn't lift weights and was around the 215 solid. A lot of his size came from the mixture of genetics, diet, and gymnastics with Martial Arts training.\


Sonny Liston was about 6'0, 210+, what was he doing on the side?

[sleazyfellow]

joe louis is great...end of story

[BKM-]

Not this Crap again. You happen to be Smasher's alt account?