Joe Louis is overrated

[The Raging Bull]

the 49-0 is a lie. Rocky Marciano turned pro under a different name and lost his first fight. He then moved and changed his name to Rocky Marciano to compete in the amateurs again then he turned pro and went 49-0. The 49 win streak is somewhat impressive but Rocky Marciano is 49-1.

Proof? It's all hearsay. There's controversy surrounding anything that is unique and you need to understand that.

[leff]

the 49-0 is a lie. Rocky Marciano turned pro under a different name and lost his first fight. He then moved and changed his name to Rocky Marciano to compete in the amateurs again then he turned pro and went 49-0. The 49 win streak is somewhat impressive but Rocky Marciano is 49-1.

gonna need proof or at least source on that one

[butterfly1964]

This statement of yours kinda sounds dumb, Butterfly, but lets see if it still does after thinking about it for a moment...

Hmm?

Person A is discreditting some mythical, generally biased, and 100% completely unprovable theories of what one only "thinks" (or "wants" in some cases) may happen, which the idea is itself faulty in logic even if going by fact based (percieved far inferior fighters constantly defeat the percieved superior fighter all the time, and have done so since the beginning of the sport).

Person B is discreditting some non-mythical, always objective, and 100% completely provable view based on FACTS.

Hmm?

Yep, it still sounds dumb.

But Butterfly...if you told me you had a 100% accuracy (or even close to that) on predicting fights beforehand that have actually happened, then I would say go for it with your heavyweight ranking based entirely on 100% mythical matchups. Then again, if you're like the rest of us who predict a few right here, one or two wrong there, and go on streaks of good luck & bad luck with this fight predicting stuff, then I'd say you're way of ranking fighters is very...

That might be where I put that "dumb" word again.

It's not completely unprovable, becasue when you study different styles, strengths and weaknesses, it is possible to make an educated guess of a mythical matchup based on the skills of the two fighters.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Didn't he fight under the name Rocky Mack? But he still won all of his pro fights under that name as well. The 49-0 is a legit record.

[hemichromis]

I have problem with Louis that he never fought black fighters of the time. The first black man he fought after he became champion he lost to, or should have lost to (Walcott). Fight was given to Louis but most of people thought Walcott won, including Louis himself. They were both the same age. You can't say Louis was old, Walcott was also. He won rematch and I give him credit for that. Another thing is he lost to Schmeling. Schmeling not just beat Louis but Louis never had a chance after fourth round and took tremendous beating, anoter words, totally dominated. Yes, he won rematch but two years later. Schmeling was not the same Schmeling that beat Louis, and Louis was in his prime. It was too much pressure on Scmeling fighting in U.S and that punch to kidney really finished him. That punch looked illegal to me. Louis would beat Schmeling in that fight no matter what but I just wanted to point another fact regarding their second bout. All this said I still rank Louis second next to Ali. Liston, Foreman and Holmes are other three heavyweigths in my top five.

in that time black vs white fights were worth alot more financialy

[Brockton Lip]

Didn't he fight under the nameRocky Mack? But he still won all of his pro fights under that name as well. The 49-0 is a legit record.

Correct. He fought under an Irish name so his mother wouldn't find out he was fighting. This was as an amatuer, as a pro he is undefeated.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

the 49-0 is a lie. Rocky Marciano turned pro under a different name and lost his first fight. He then moved and changed his name to Rocky Marciano to compete in the amateurs again then he turned pro and went 49-0. The 49 win streak is somewhat impressive but Rocky Marciano is 49-1.

that statement is completely false

Marciano did in fact start his career under a different name (Rocky Mack) However it is recorded on his professional record..

Check for yourself. It was a year before he went Professional again
http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=9032
Last Name, Lee Epperson


Under the name rocky mack he fought Lee Epperson who appears on his record so he was 49-0 Legitly

When he got out of the Army the following year, Rocky took a local fight to make a few bucks. This time it would count as a pro fight, and be reported in the Brockton papers. His mother had forbid him to fight, so to keep her from finding out, Marciano signed up as Rocky Mack. His opponent was Lee Eperson and in the third round Eperson became the first of 43 KO victims for the Brockton Blockbuster. The date was March 17th, 1947. (He wasn't yet Rocky Marciano. That name would come about when he signed with Al Weil in 1948, who found his family name of Marchegiano too hard to pronounce)

Here's the site
http://www.********boxing.com/boxing...y-Marciano.php

copy the url and where the stars are put e a s t s i d e (no spaces)

Here's what it comes down too

Rocky did fight under the name Rocky Mack
It was a professional bout
Rocky did go back down to Amateurs after this fight
ROCKY DID WIN THIS FIGHT AGAINST LEE EPPERSON

[RockyMarcianofan00]

You give the Marciano career fights to somebody like Foreman, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Dempsey, etc., I will show you fighters that can say the same then.

Your correct, if you took all 49 of Marciano's opponents and put them up against Foreman, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Dempsey, and many more they would all be 49-0 however if you took all of the latter and put them in Marciano's shoes I garuntee you almost all of them if not all of them would not be 49-0....

Ali had if memory serves over 100 amateur fights to develop his skills, also Ali was very young when he began boxing (around 10 I believe)

Foreman began boxing when he was 15 (i believe) and had 18 amateur further more both Ali and Foreman were in the Olympics which is a great thing for a up and coming fighter...

Tyson began his career well in his early teens, and I'm not sure of his amateur record but I'm sure its more then 12 fights....

Dempsey...I can't provide too much about this but to the best of my knowledge he began street fighting as early as 12 and had over 100 fights (street and boxing matches)....

The point I'm trying to make is before you say each of them would beat Marciano's competition, you might want to consider that if any of them were in Marciano's shoes they most likely would not have been 49-0.....

Marciano had about 2 years and 12 fights to get ready to be a pro fighter...along with this Marciano was a heavy smoker and started very late in his life (early 20's)....

[Animal Squabbs]

Bert Sugar said it in his book, 100 greatest fighters. It was also in another book i think called the heavyweight champions.

he;s 49-1

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Bert Sugar said it in his book, 100 greatest fighters. It was also in another book i think called the heavyweight champions.

he;s 49-1

thats odd because I remember watching a special on Rocky Marciano and Bert Sugar saying exactly what I said in my last post (about Rocky Mack)....