Boxers whose careers were cut short...what if?

[Willie Pep 229]

I'd have to look it up again, but their was a poll done on who the public wanted to see Dempsey fight and Wills was the clear winner. And taking 3 years off isn't the same as having 3 years taken away my friend. And need I remind you he took two years off between fighting light heavyweights Carpentier and Gibbons

I was not the one who suggested that he lost three years "taken away" that was someone else's point - I was saying that the public wasn't demanding the fight Wills; that he could have fought anyone and packed a ballpark.

In regards to the poll that makes sense the newspaper guys would certainly have wanted the Wills fight, but that is irrelevant. They are not the public; the public buys any Dempsey fight.

In the 1924 Ring Rankings (created by Tex Rickard) ranked Wills #1 and Dempsey #2 because of inactivity. ( Wills fought Firpo that year.) The Ring (NF) changed the ranking putting Dempsey on top. (Rickard had done the same think with Benny Leonard and NF changed that ranking as well.)

But the bigger point is that Dempsey took that time off because he wanted to not because he couldn't get a fight unless he fought Wills.

Whether Wills was there, or even wanted by the NYSAC and the press is irrelevant as to why Dempsey didnt fight for three years.

In regards to Dempsey not fighting in 1922; that was Doc Kearns trying to keep his fighter away from Tex Rickard ( who was in the process of going "Don King" and stealing Dempsey away from Kearns.) That's why when Dempsey did fight again after Carpentier it was way out west in Montana, far away from Rickard. Kearns went to great lengths blocking the possibility of any New York fight from taking place in 1922, with or without Wills, Kearns didn't want Dempsey fighting in the east near Rickard. (Shelby didnt work out too well and soured Dempsey on Kearns and Rickard got Dempsey anyway.

But again after Firpo, Dempsey sat on the title until he was free from Kearns and that meant waiting until 1926.

Wills was irrelevant to Dempsey's actions.

[GhostofDempsey]

- -Hard to make a Wills fight with no promoter of note willing to do that and Kearns attaching every sum in every Dempsey bank account he could get his grubbies on.

Lost years. Git thee to U minder for explanation.

Also hard to make a Wills fight when Wills side of the camp couldn't come up with Dempsey's money. That's ultimately what killed the fight.

[JAB5239]

I was not the one who suggested that he lost three years "taken away" that was someone else's point - I was saying that the public wasn't demanding the fight Wills; that he could have fought anyone and packed a ballpark.

In regards to the poll that makes sense the newspaper guys would certainly have wanted the Wills fight, but that is irrelevant. They are not the public; the public buys any Dempsey fight.

In the 1924 Ring Rankings (created by Tex Rickard) ranked Wills #1 and Dempsey #2 because of inactivity. ( Wills fought Firpo that year.) The Ring (NF) changed the ranking putting Dempsey on top. (Rickard had done the same think with Benny Leonard and NF changed that ranking as well.)

But the bigger point is that Dempsey took that time off because he wanted to not because he couldn't get a fight unless he fought Wills.

Whether Wills was there, or even wanted by the NYSAC and the press is irrelevant as to why Dempsey didnt fight for three years.

In regards to Dempsey not fighting in 1922; that was Doc Kearns trying to keep his fighter away from Tex Rickard ( who was in the process of going "Don King" and stealing Dempsey away from Kearns.) That's why when Dempsey did fight again after Carpentier it was way out west in Montana, far away from Rickard. Kearns went to great lengths blocking the possibility of any New York fight from taking place in 1922, with or without Wills, Kearns didn't want Dempsey fighting in the east near Rickard. (Shelby didnt work out too well and soured Dempsey on Kearns and Rickard got Dempsey anyway.

But again after Firpo, Dempsey sat on the title until he was free from Kearns and that meant waiting until 1926.

Wills was irrelevant to Dempsey's actions.

Who said anything about newspaper guys wanting the fight? This was a public poll conducted by I've over 500 newspapers where John Q. Public voted for Wills to be Dempsey's opponent. The point is the public did want this fight.

As far as Dempsey being able to make money fighting anybody....than his career wasn't cut short. He chose to take up acting gigs and do promotions instead of fighting. He was never forced to. That is still my point.

[Willie Pep 229]

Who said anything about newspaper guys wanting the fight? This was a public poll conducted by I've over 500 newspapers where John Q. Public voted for Wills to be Dempsey's opponent. The point is the public did want this fight.

As far as Dempsey being able to make money fighting anybody....than his career wasn't cut short. He chose to take up acting gigs and do promotions instead of fighting. He was never forced to. That is still my point.

We actually have nothing to disagree about we are on the same page - Dempsey chose not to fight - I was just suggesting why.

First I agree the most desired fight was Wills but I must question the validity of your source -- off handily I find it hard to believe that there was nation wide cooperation by competing newspapers - 500 different newspapers commiting to put in the man hour costs to take and count a poll seems questionable - I wonder at whose request these 500 newspapers would do that?

Anything is possible I guess.

Again my point is that Dempsey does what Dempsey did regardless of whether there was a Wills around or not.

[GhostofDempsey]

Billy Collins Jr. also comes to mind. His career derailed by Luis Resto's tampered gloves that resulted in a no contest. Prior to that fight Collins was 14-0 with 11KOs. His career ended that night and his vision would never recover, permanently blurred, he would die a year later in a car crash.

[Dynamite76]

Thinking of some fighters whose careers have been cut short due to untimely death, injury, prison, early retirement etc. How would their careers have played out? Destined for all-timegreatness, falling short of ATG status but still HOF worthy? Or? Feel free to add names to the list.

Stanley Ketchel

Pancho Villa

John Henry Lewis

Salvador Sanchez

Edwin Valero

Gerald McCellen

Tony Ayala

David Reid

Paul Williams

Ike Ibaebuchi

Toss in Ali for the three years he lost while banished from boxing, and George Foreman if he doesn’t retire the first time around.

John Henry Lewis, if his eye wasn't messed up, may have derailed Billy Conn's ascent into heavyweight, He was that good. Salvador would have run into someone at 130 or 135 that could have take him i.e Rosario or Camacho. Tony Ayala runs into Davey Moore and loses, if not Mugabi, or Hearns to take him out.

[JAB5239]

John Henry Lewis, if his eye wasn't messed up, may have derailed Billy Conn's ascent into heavyweight, He was that good. Salvador would have run into someone at 130 or 135 that could have take him i.e Rosario or Camacho. Tony Ayala runs into Davey Moore and loses, if not Mugabi, or Hearns to take him out.

Nice post. Good to see you around.

[QueensburyRules]

- -John Henry turned pro at age 14 and packed in a 100-10-5, 56 KO record with a single KO loss to the #1 all time heavy Joe Louis into a 10 year career.

That is quite substantial and hardly an abbreviated career.

https://boxrec.com/en/event/42262/65512

[markusmod]

Nice post. Good to see you around.

Dynamite always sneaks in with some knowledge when least expected.

[Dynamite76]

Nice post. Good to see you around.

Thanks, good to be back✌!