Buy or Sell: Drawing the Color Line

[Willie Pep 229]

This was a long conversation in another thread, so you may be missing some context. It was part of a thread on the merits of CRT.

No one is arguing that school districts shouldn't be allowed to spend the money they have the way they want to.


It's more along the lines of why schools are still largely segregated in the United States, and what that means for the education that children receive.

CRT basically says this: Critical Race Theory recognizes that racism is more than the result of individual bias and prejudice. It is embedded in laws, policies and institutions that uphold and reproduce racial inequalities.

It states systemic racism is part of American society — from education and housing to employment and healthcare.


It's easy to see how this is correct, which is why "redlining" came into the conversation.


You start here:



and then you get here:





That should make it all clear. When you have that stat that I first mentioned...what was it.....Just pulled it up to get it right.

REPORT: WHITE SCHOOL DISTRICTS RECEIVE $23 BILLION MORE IN FUNDING THAN BLACK DISTRICTS




Then it should be clear. There are specific reasons that these Black neighborhoods have less for schools that is related to what amounts to former legalized racism within the system.





So it's not about what you have personally experienced, but an overall outlook.

But if we want to talk personal experiences, I attended public school in a majority Black neighborhood. I've dealt with classes that literally had NO TEACHER for a month. Meaning we went to a classroom and NO ONE was there. This was an AP History course. When the teacher did arrive, we all had different editions of the books...some badly outdated. I've had teachers take me into their back storage area and sell me extra books to make a quick buck because they weren't being paid well and they knew we weren't being prepared well. These schools were horrible and though I managed to do well and go on to a great University, the schools in theses neighborhoods fail their children. Some teachers really do care, some don't. None are paid enough. But it's the schools themselves that flunk.

I am with you regarding your personal experience. I in fact got my first (and only) position starting in mid year, as an AP teacher to a class that hadn't had a teacher in a month. Literally!

When a school in the northeast is as poorly funded as the one you describe there can be only two possibilities

That the State of New York isn't doing enough.

The money is being misappropriated.

I agree with CRT in principle, but believe the immediate problems have to be addressed immediately. E.g. education.

Truth be I don't see where there is any argument as to whether the past policies have embedded racisim into the system. It is of course, a no brainer.

Slavery --> Jim Crow --> civil rights--> had to leave behind an institutionsial racism, good and bad / malicious and bevolent.

What we (America, not you and I) are arguing about is whether we are going to talk about it.

There is enough government and money in place to address the immediate problems if only the leadership was there.

In regards to the long term we have consistently, for the past 160 years, moved towards equal opportunity not away from it.

CRT is just trying to push the issue further forward by making it a national dialouge. There is going to be some resistance to that. But I personally support it.

[QueensburyRules]

This was a long conversation in another thread, so you may be missing some context. It was part of a thread on the merits of CRT.

No one is arguing that school districts shouldn't be allowed to spend the money they have the way they want to.


It's more along the lines of why schools are still largely segregated in the United States, and what that means for the education that children receive.

CRT basically says this: Critical Race Theory recognizes that racism is more than the result of individual bias and prejudice. It is embedded in laws, policies and institutions that uphold and reproduce racial inequalities.

It states systemic racism is part of American society — from education and housing to employment and healthcare.


It's easy to see how this is correct, which is why "redlining" came into the conversation.


You start here:



and then you get here:





That should make it all clear. When you have that stat that I first mentioned...what was it.....Just pulled it up to get it right.

REPORT: WHITE SCHOOL DISTRICTS RECEIVE $23 BILLION MORE IN FUNDING THAN BLACK DISTRICTS




Then it should be clear. There are specific reasons that these Black neighborhoods have less for schools that is related to what amounts to former legalized racism within the system.





So it's not about what you have personally experienced, but an overall outlook.

But if we want to talk personal experiences, I attended public school in a majority Black neighborhood. I've dealt with classes that literally had NO TEACHER for a month. Meaning we went to a classroom and NO ONE was there. This was an AP History course. When the teacher did arrive, we all had different editions of the books...some badly outdated. I've had teachers take me into their back storage area and sell me extra books to make a quick buck because they weren't being paid well and they knew we weren't being prepared well. These schools were horrible and though I managed to do well and go on to a great University, the schools in theses neighborhoods fail their children. Some teachers really do care, some don't. None are paid enough. But it's the schools themselves that flunk.

- - What is the assault rate on teachers in "Bad" districts? Are teacher's cars being vandalized such that they couldn't come to work until scrambling to get them fixed? Why are EMS and Fire personnel being assaulted after being 911ed into these "Bad" neighborhoods to put out fires and render emergency health care?

The Feds and States have much to do with how local school districts are run. Here in Texas, I live in what used to be a rural affordable town now paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, most of which go to public education, and then police, ems, fire, and city/county government. Half of those education taxes are recaptured by Texas to be redistributed to poor school districts that are invariably inner city minority or rural districts.

There is more money in Public Schools through taxes than ever before by a factor of 10 or more, and yet still they churn out because of degenerate policy growth and a national cultural decline a significant number of education challenged students ill equipped for the modern society of commerce. It don't help matters that they don't seem to know what bathrooms they supposed to use. That in part is why private non public schools are growing.

For the record I attended the largest public high school in Texas and both sides of my family have a history of being public school educators. I didn't like the push curriculum of my HS and was lucky to graduate after incredibly minor disputes with my English and French teachers who held the power of the grade over me.

[travestyny]

I am with you regarding your personal experience. I in fact got my first (and only) position starting in mid year, as an AP teacher to a class that hadn't had a teacher in a month. Literally!

When a school in the northeast is as poorly funded as the one you describe there can be only two possibilities

That the State of New York isn't doing enough.

The money is being misappropriated.

I agree with CRT in principle, but believe the immediate problems have to be addressed immediately. E.g. education.

Truth be I don't see where there is any argument as to whether the past policies have embedded racisim into the system. It is of course, a no brainer.

Slavery --> Jim Crow --> civil rights--> had to leave behind an institutionsial racism, good and bad / malicious and bevolent.

What we (America, not you and I) are arguing about is whether we are going to talk about it.

There is enough government and money in place to address the immediate problems if only the leadership was there.

In regards to the long term we have consistently, for the past 160 years, moved towards equal opportunity not away from it.

CRT is just trying to push the issue further forward by making it a national dialouge. There is going to be some resistance to that. But I personally support it.

Well it seems CRT has done this for many years. It's just that it's recently in the news because **********s need a boogey man to rile up the people and get them to "vote ********** or else CRT and the left are coming for your kids and going to teach them that White folks are evil and racist," which is NOT even what CRT says first of all, and it's also not being taught to children in grade school. That some people can't see through this little gimmick that the ********** party has been doing for years is confusing to me. Lee Atwater stated it specifically what the strategy was, and yet this strategy is still being used and people are still falling for it.

I do hope that things get better. Something needs to be done about property taxes paying for schools. It's just so infinitely sad that some students receive such poor educations. And I'm not only referring to Black students, I mean poor students of all races. You would think that America could do much better.


Sorry for the redirection. I didn't want to discuss this here. I was actually more interested in what Dr. Z claims to have of Harry Wills in his collection, but I guess he'd rather talk about this topic and continue to duck the questions I ask rather than addressing why he implied he had more on Wills but refuses to say what (because he is an obvious liar).

[travestyny]

- - What is the assault rate on teachers in "Bad" districts? Are teacher's cars being vandalized such that they couldn't come to work until scrambling to get them fixed? Why are EMS and Fire personnel being assaulted after being 911ed into these "Bad" neighborhoods to put out fires and render emergency health care?

Don't know. You tell me. In all of my years of schooling in public schools, I've never heard of a teacher being attacked in my schools or their cars being vandalized. In my brother's school, he once told me a teacher was attacked with acid. That's the only time I've ever heard of an attack on a teacher.

One of my ex gfs, who was half white half cuban, told me about some pretty mean spirited pranks kids played at her old school. But she went to a "White school" and I get the feeling that doesn't fit into your questioning, as I'd hardly consider Fairlawn, NJ to be a bad district. I once complained to her mom about a group of Black kids throwing rocks at the train I was riding in going from hoboeken to their place, and her mom responded, "Please. You think poor kids throwing rocks is a big deal? You should hear about some of the trouble these rich kids around here get into..and their parents get them out of."

The Feds and States have much to do with how local school districts are run. Here in Texas, I live in what used to be a rural affordable town now paying some of the highest property taxes in the country, most of which go to public education, and then police, ems, fire, and city/county government. Half of those education taxes are recaptured by Texas to be redistributed to poor school districts that are invariably inner city minority or rural districts.

There is more money in Public Schools through taxes than ever before by a factor of 10 or more, and yet still they churn out because of degenerate policy growth and a national cultural decline a significant number of education challenged students ill equipped for the modern society of commerce. It don't help matters that they don't seem to know what bathrooms they supposed to use. That in part is why private non public schools are growing.

For the record I attended the largest public high school in Texas and both sides of my family have a history of being public school educators. I didn't like the push curriculum of my HS and was lucky to graduate after incredibly minor disputes with my English and French teachers who held the power of the grade over me.

I hope that they continue to make progress and get quality teachers and resources for all of the kids from Kindergarten all the way to HS. I volunteered to teach children to read in New Orleans when I attended law school there. Those kids were so far behind and it was heart breaking. The schools there are so poorly funded and they desperately needed us law school students to take some time out and help them whenever we could. We have billions for Ukraine out of nowhere but can't help our own children. Not that helping Ukraine isn't important, because it is. But America definitely needs to do better.

[Willie Pep 229]

We never had a teacher-student assualt problem. We did have one teacher (in my 30 years; same school) claim his Rolex watch was stolen at gun point one day after school.

We were all su****ious he was playing an insurance scam. We had cameras all over the school, this happened in one of the few places we didn't. Lol

Now kids beating on one another was a constant (30 year) problem. It never got worst but never got better.

The real criminals (who would attack a teacher) are usually gone out of the system by the time they are young adults and really dagenerous.

I was threatened once but that was night/adult school.

Warning Offensive Statement Coming:

We use to have a very dark, gallows sense of humor about school shootings.

We felt when our kids used violence there was money, ***elery or sneakers involved, lol these white kids on the other hand were killing each other for emotional failures. It made us feel better about our kids.

Our reality was to hear, through the student g****vine, that another alumus was shot dead at a party last Saturday night. Usually for a very ****** argument. That is a constant reality that many minority kids live with.

But never worried that our kids would go psychopath and show up at school shooting innocents.

Not sure why but just felt it my gut, that just wasn't our kids. At the time it seemed a white school problem.

[QueensburyRules]

We never had a teacher-student assualt problem. We did have one teacher (in my 30 years; same school) claim his Rolex watch was stolen at gun point one day after school.

We were all su****ious he was playing an insurance scam. We had cameras all over the school, this happened in one of the few places we didn't. Lol

Now kids beating on one another was a constant (30 year) problem. It never got worst but never got better.

The real criminals (who would attack a teacher) are usually gone out of the system by the time they are young adults and really dagenerous.

I was threatened once but that was night/adult school.

Warning Offensive Statement Coming:

We use to have a very dark, gallows sense of humor about school shootings.

We felt when our kids used violence there was money, ***elery or sneakers involved, lol these white kids on the other hand were killing each other for emotional failures. It made us feel better about our kids.

Our reality was to hear, through the student g****vine, that another alumus was shot dead at a party last Saturday night. Usually for a very ****** argument. That is a constant reality that many minority kids live with.

But never worried that our kids would go psychopath and show up at school shooting innocents.

Not sure why but just felt it my gut, that just wasn't our kids. At the time it seemed a white school problem.

- - Pep, we have a serious, SERIOUS teacher shortage here in part to classroom assaults exacerbated by loss of discipline used to keep students in line, the botched Coron Panic of 2020 that killed the economy along with daily protocol changes still ongoing.

It's all reflected in the decline of credible federal and state oversight because of long term failures have weakened them. Public schools are no longer about education, but passing endless state exams such that now teachers are forced to teach to the endless tests rather than provide the various wisdoms of their profession in the traditional manner. Salaries here are $60-75k range that puts them in the top 15% of wage earners. It's a high stress job exacerbated by the decades old outdated agricultural model of summers off so as to work the ranch or farm in those essential seasons. Parents have to arrange expensive daycare, ie camps, summer school, ect, but still the kids have little supervision in those months where much of the troubles occur that transfer into the new semester.

Then the parents who are often dire.

Sounds like Teensy complaints are centered around the general degradation of public schools in his area. High crime cities have low taxes because the only folks living there are the ones who can't escape the crime and impoverishment, so maybe they get trickle down federal assistance that doesn't solve the high crime rate driving the escape to better run cities.

[travestyny]

- - Pep, we have a serious, SERIOUS teacher shortage here in part to classroom assaults exacerbated by loss of discipline used to keep students in line, the botched Coron Panic of 2020 that killed the economy along with daily protocol changes still ongoing.

It's all reflected in the decline of credible federal and state oversight because of long term failures have weakened them. Public schools are no longer about education, but passing endless state exams such that now teachers are forced to teach to the endless tests rather than provide the various wisdoms of their profession in the traditional manner. Salaries here are $60-75k range that puts them in the top 15% of wage earners. It's a high stress job exacerbated by the decades old outdated agricultural model of summers off so as to work the ranch or farm in those essential seasons. Parents have to arrange expensive daycare, ie camps, summer school, ect, but still the kids have little supervision in those months where much of the troubles occur that transfer into the new semester.

Then the parents who are often dire.

Sounds like Teensy complaints are centered around the general degradation of public schools in his area. High crime cities have low taxes because the only folks living there are the ones who can't escape the crime and impoverishment, so maybe they get trickle down federal assistance that doesn't solve the high crime rate driving the escape to better run cities.

No. "Teensy's" complaints are not centered around his area.

"Teensy's" complaints are centered around this:

Report finds $23 billion racial funding gap for schools

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...d15_story.html

Obviously not about one area. This problem began when the United States segregated the country. Should be pretty clear.

[Dr. Z]

Here is a study that addresses my question. Let's see if you deny this




So again, are the schools in Black neighborhoods of equal quality to schools in White neighborhoods?

You have to be a pathetic and disgusting person to have an agenda regarding children's education to the point that you will refuse to admit what is clearly obvious. It's a shame you squandered your education being that I've told you at least three times to learn the difference between "your" and "you're" and you still can't figure it out.



So one more time...answer the question without talking about students. Are the schools themselves of equal quality? Yes or no?

No you fool. If the students drop out of school and don't have family support, those schools won't do well in a raking sense. It's a losing culture and one that giving extra money to ( which is the CRT goal among other things ) won't work. I answered your question. You don't listen!

[Ivich]

No you fool. If the students drop out of school and don't have family support, those schools won't do well in a raking sense. It's a losing culture and one that giving extra money to ( which is the CRT goal among other things ) won't work. I answered your question. You don't listen!

The irony of you calling anyone a fool!
RAKING? lol

[QueensburyRules]

No. "Teensy's" complaints are not centered around his area.

"Teensy's" complaints are centered around this:





Obviously not about one area. This problem began when the United States segregated the country. Should be pretty clear.

- - When did the US segregate itself?

How did some ****** become so erudite as their letters and publications show?

Frederick Douglas?