Who Was the First Truly "Modern" Boxer

[ShoulderRoll]

Corbett is an interesting choice, and makes sense. He fought in the bareknuckle methods but actually fought virtually all his fights gloved.

He learned to box in San Francisco, which at the time was arguably the epicenter of the sport in the US.

Doc Kearns also began boxing there and of course would later go on to show some of the ropes to Jack Dempsey.

[billeau2]

He learned to box in San Francisco, which at the time was arguably the epicenter of the sport in the US.

Doc Kearns also began boxing there and of course would later go on to show some of the ropes to Jack Dempsey.

True, A lot of great fighters from that area, Oakland also, though not as well known. Abe Atell another one. Before the great quake...

[Quercusalba]

True, A lot of great fighters from that area, Oakland also, though not as well known. Abe Atell another one. Before the great quake...

If we're talking about 'old-timers' from the Bay area, I have to mention Joe Choynski. Among his other accomplishments, he knocked out Jack Johnson and then taught him how to box.

[Dariusz]

Dempsey for me, at least in HW. His fight against Willard was like modern style fought old style. Even Tyson said that he borrowed this and that from Dempsey technique.

[Dr. Z]

Probably Corbett was the one, at least on film.

[Marchegiano]

First of all Green K, Great topic!

I believe that the answer to your question would depend on what epoche you are referring to. Marchgiano has mentioned fighters like Daniel Espenoza, the Shephardem *** as a modern fighter for the times, I would add jem mace, to this list. What they did was reframe the fight as being about tactics, countering, finding a way to win using skill and not brute force, and these guys fought pretty much after figg.

When we get to the point where fighters were using sword distance, stepping into the gap to attack, footwork was very good... But Jack Johnson was in a league by himself. He is the first fighter I saw use a jab... Most guys used a front lead, no pronation of the wrist on the punch... Johnson scientifically approached grappling, and could do many other things.

Then we get Dempsey. Dempsey wrote, and developed the art of punching. Dempsey took critiscism that had been levelled for years stating that fighters often were not trained to hit hard. He made explicit the mechanics of using body weight and good form (his punches were always described as short, untelegraphed), and showed that one need not fight off the back leg, but could slip punches close range using headand shoulder movements.

Blackburn eventually made Louis, who introduced a more energy efficient method of setting up punches.

These are the modern innovators.

Many of the guys you mentioned were great fighters, but just... great, not necessarily modern, in the sense of inovating the sport with new ideas. Robinson could just do everything...Ali ditto... etc.

I love Mendoza because he's so ****ing clear.

One can argue a lot of things based on styles, like perhaps Broughton had more tricks than Figg, but what no one can argue is mentality.

Stay safe and hit more often than getting hit just wasn't a mindset fighters had before Mendoza.

So for modern gameplans, technique put aside, Mendoza is without any doubt the granddaddy of them all when it comes to points fighting. He was not only points fighting before it was cool, there wasn't even ****ing points yet!

And he's deeper than just setting Boxing up with a new way of thinking about things. Directly trained the first of the Black pugilists in boxing history, which is important because of the difference in how black men and white men fought in the early days in America. To explain how say Corbett became Corbett first you need Mendoza, Cribb, Moly, Richmond, Fuller, and Moly-Hewlett. You need both the white, black, and british stories to tell modern American origins.

On top of that, first to use the press

First to charge for tickets to seats at his fights.

Dude basically invented the modern industry and did it for money. The ***. None comes close. Coward, conspiring, greedy, Daniel gave his audience everything they hated from ***s and in return they hated him but lined his pockets well.

Even the term science in boxing. That wasn't ****ing Newton or Tesla or anyone like that. There was never a time when science took such an interest in boxing it explained to boxing the physics of boxing. No one ever brought science to their camp. Mendoza just told them his way is scientific. Today the sweet science continues and no matter who wins what where or how, if they employ the media, if they protect themselves at all times, use that term sweet science, charge money to watch them fight, and / or fight for points, they honor The ***. It's his glory just as much as the Pope and Queen represent the glory of Rome. Who doesn't qualify. The whole sport, even bruisers like Marciano, owe Mendoza some respect.


I could talk all goddamn day about how important Mendoza is to modern boxing

[Inspired]

i wish i was 100 yrs old too so i could appreciate this convo.

[The plunger man]

I would say Gene Tunney ....he was articulate , smart and very slick and people perceived him much more than just a pugilist which made him very marketable.
I would say him

[billeau2]

If we're talking about 'old-timers' from the Bay area, I have to mention Joe Choynski. Among his other accomplishments, he knocked out Jack Johnson and then taught him how to box.

Choyinski indeed! Underrated fighter, fought many of the greats at that time, was competitive with all, including Fitzimmons.

[billeau2]

I love Mendoza because he's so ****ing clear.

One can argue a lot of things based on styles, like perhaps Broughton had more tricks than Figg, but what no one can argue is mentality.

Stay safe and hit more often than getting hit just wasn't a mindset fighters had before Mendoza.

So for modern gameplans, technique put aside, Mendoza is without any doubt the granddaddy of them all when it comes to points fighting. He was not only points fighting before it was cool, there wasn't even ****ing points yet!

And he's deeper than just setting Boxing up with a new way of thinking about things. Directly trained the first of the Black pugilists in boxing history, which is important because of the difference in how black men and white men fought in the early days in America. To explain how say Corbett became Corbett first you need Mendoza, Cribb, Moly, Richmond, Fuller, and Moly-Hewlett. You need both the white, black, and british stories to tell modern American origins.

On top of that, first to use the press

First to charge for tickets to seats at his fights.

Dude basically invented the modern industry and did it for money. The ***. None comes close. Coward, conspiring, greedy, Daniel gave his audience everything they hated from ***s and in return they hated him but lined his pockets well.

Even the term science in boxing. That wasn't ****ing Newton or Tesla or anyone like that. There was never a time when science took such an interest in boxing it explained to boxing the physics of boxing. No one ever brought science to their camp. Mendoza just told them his way is scientific. Today the sweet science continues and no matter who wins what where or how, if they employ the media, if they protect themselves at all times, use that term sweet science, charge money to watch them fight, and / or fight for points, they honor The ***. It's his glory just as much as the Pope and Queen represent the glory of Rome. Who doesn't qualify. The whole sport, even bruisers like Marciano, owe Mendoza some respect.


I could talk all goddamn day about how important Mendoza is to modern boxing

I could listen all day... have some similar feelings about Choyinski who was just mentioned, though Mendoza did it first.