is Golovkin a top all time 15 great at middleweight?

[ShoulderRoll]

So I will pose this question directly to you (I asked it as a whole earlier), as you have derided his resume:

This thread is about how we rate Golovkin as a middleweight, so for the sake of discussion focus solely on 160 pound fights, as thats where middleweight is.

I've always felt Golovkin's prime years were 2010-2015. Now, people deride GGG for not having a good enough resume (as you did above); so I wonder what top MW (who was actually fighting at 160) during the early '10s did G miss out on that you think he shouldve fought? And in your opinion: why didn't he fight them (duck, timing, etc) and what wouldve happened?

What could a prime GGG have done at middleweight to have proved that he was a better middleweight?

Erislandy Lara was constantly calling out Golovkin and willing to move up to 160 to fight him.

Lara: There'll Come a Time When Golovkin Won't Have an Excuse

https://www.boxingscene.com/lara-therell-come-time-golovkin-an-excuse--110564

Sergio Mora challenged him as well...and I know what people will say, it's just Sergio freaking Mora. Yeah, but he beat Gregorz Proksa too just like Gokovkin did. The quality of GGG's resume is such that having the Latin Snake on it would actually improve it.

Sergio Mora Hopes Proksa Will Lead To Golovkin Shot

https://www.boxingscene.com/sergio-mora-hopes-proksa-lead-golovkin-shot--67109

Jermall Charlo was Golovkin's mandatory and the fight was even ordered by the WBC. We didn't get that matchup either.

Golovkin's Promoter: Charlo Fight is Not Going To Happen

https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-promoter-charlo-fight-not-going-happen--133201

Demetrius Andrade has been under the same streaming service and promoter as Golovkin for a while yet that fight hasn't happened to this day. They're talking about possibly doing it next but I'd bet you that he chooses Jaime Munguia instead. Just watch.

Hearn: If Canelo-Golovkin III Can't Happen, I'll Push DAZN For Golovkin-Andrade

https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-if-canelo-golovkin-iii-t-happen-ill-push-dazn-golovkin-andrade--154422

[Dr. Z]

PEDS? Canelo signed up for year-round VADA testing before the second fight with Golovkin and performed even better while clean than he did in the first fight.

You think calling out everyone from 154 to 168, then backtracking with a catchweight when Andre Ward answered the call, is daring to be great? You're certainly entitled to your opinion but to me that doesn't look good at all.

It's not being a "hater" on my part. We're talking all-time great status so resumes have to be nitpicked. And the fact is Golovkin's resume is pretty underwhelming. Some of it is the era he was in but some of it is also his fault.

Little Canelo can go all the way up to 175 lbs to chase belts but Golovkin can't take one fight at 168 for legacy? That just looks bad, man.

The thread i about middleweights, not 175.

Its well known Canelo was on PED's. He wouldn't even step on the scale for one of the GGG fights as he was likely in the 180's.

Ward passed on the fight, period.

Now give me 15 better middle weights, if that's possible.

[ShoulderRoll]

The thread i about middleweights, not 175.

Its well known Canelo was on PED's. He wouldn't even step on the scale for one of the GGG fights as he was likely in the 180's.

Ward passed on the fight, period.

Now give me 15 better middle weights, if that's possible.

Like I said, Canelo signed up for year-round VADA then went on to look even better while clean in the second fight.

Ward passed on draining himself to 164. Golovkin passed on a chance to really challenge himself and prove greatness.

15 better middleweights? I'll take a stab at it.

Stanley Ketchel
Mike Gibbons
Tiger Flowers
Harry Greb
Micky Walker
Freddie Steele
Tony Zale
Sugar Ray Robinson
Marcel Cerdan
Jake LaMotta
**** Tiger
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Michael Nunn
James Toney
Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins

That's more than 15 I guess. But there you go.

[Dr. Z]

Like I said, Canelo signed up for year-round VADA then went on to look even better while clean in the second fight.

Ward passed on draining himself to 164. Golovkin passed on a chance to really challenge himself and prove greatness.

15 better middleweights? I'll take a stab at it.

Stanley Ketchel
Mike Gibbons
Tiger Flowers
Harry Greb
Micky Walker
Freddie Steele
Tony Zale
Sugar Ray Robinson
Marcel Cerdan
Jake LaMotta
**** Tiger
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Michael Nunn
James Toney
Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins

That's more than 15 I guess. But there you go.

Ketchel has a very thin resume, and was beaten more than once. He's crude as can be on film, GGG Chews him up and puts him out. How many title defenses did he make? Looks terrible on two filmed fights.

Gibbons? He wasn't ever champion.

Flowers? Was champion for just one year, Failed to win 23 times, and some of he names you've never heard of.

Steele, you could argue belongs. But not above GGG, his resume is a little light.

I can do this to many fighters with ease. GGG has a better record, a better K0%, more title defenses, more viewable film, was never down, etc... Of course he belongs in the top 15, and over many of the names you listed.

[ShoulderRoll]

Ketchel has a very thin resume, and was beaten more than once. He's crude as can be on film, GGG Chews him up and puts him out. How many title defenses did he make? Looks terrible on two filmed fights.

Gibbons? He wasn't ever champion.

Flowers? Was champion for just one year, Failed to win 23 times, and some of he names you've never heard of.

Steele, you could argue belongs. But not above GGG, his resume is a little light.

I can do this to many fighters with ease. GGG has a better record, a better K0%, more title defenses, more viewable film, was never down, etc... Of course he belongs in the top 15, and over many of the names you listed.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'll just agree to disagree.

[Dr. Z]

You're entitled to your opinion. I'll just agree to disagree.

Fair enough, but the facts mostly agree with me. Tiger, Toney and Nunn in the top 15? Wow. Maybe Toney, as for the two others no way.

[The plunger man]

Like I said, Canelo signed up for year-round VADA then went on to look even better while clean in the second fight.

Ward passed on draining himself to 164. Golovkin passed on a chance to really challenge himself and prove greatness.

15 better middleweights? I'll take a stab at it.

Stanley Ketchel
Mike Gibbons
Tiger Flowers
Harry Greb
Micky Walker
Freddie Steele
Tony Zale
Sugar Ray Robinson
Marcel Cerdan
Jake LaMotta
**** Tiger
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Michael Nunn
James Toney
Roy Jones
Bernard Hopkins

That's more than 15 I guess. But there you go.

take away steele,gibbons,Hopkins,Zale,lamotta,ketchel and possibly Toney and you have golovkin there.
The same faults you pass on golovkin are the faults you applaud Toney with as a middleweight as the only names he boxed as middleweight champion were Nunn and McCallum who he drew with...the rest the were low level challengers.
Again your bias towards golovkin sees no bounds ....is it a colour thing ?
I’ve got your number shoulder

[The plunger man]

Fair enough, but the facts mostly agree with me. Tiger, Toney and Nunn in the top 15? Wow. Maybe Toney, as for the two others no way.

I wouldn’t take no notice of shoulder he has something against golovkin .....he is pretty much the same as aboutfcktime... We all see it

[QueensburyRules]

The thread i about middleweights, not 175.

Its well known Canelo was on PED's. He wouldn't even step on the scale for one of the GGG fights as he was likely in the 180's.

- -OK, you not only timeline illiterate, but a bad combination of PEDs illiterate too.

Canelo never failed a drug test...simples.

Now, insert your PEDs illiteracy here_________!!!

[DeeMoney]

Erislandy Lara was constantly calling out Golovkin and willing to move up to 160 to fight him.

Lara: There'll Come a Time When Golovkin Won't Have an Excuse

https://www.boxingscene.com/lara-therell-come-time-golovkin-an-excuse--110564

Sergio Mora challenged him as well...and I know what people will say, it's just Sergio freaking Mora. Yeah, but he beat Gregorz Proksa too just like Gokovkin did. The quality of GGG's resume is such that having the Latin Snake on it would actually improve it.

Sergio Mora Hopes Proksa Will Lead To Golovkin Shot

https://www.boxingscene.com/sergio-mora-hopes-proksa-lead-golovkin-shot--67109

Jermall Charlo was Golovkin's mandatory and the fight was even ordered by the WBC. We didn't get that matchup either.

Golovkin's Promoter: Charlo Fight is Not Going To Happen

https://www.boxingscene.com/golovkin-promoter-charlo-fight-not-going-happen--133201

Demetrius Andrade has been under the same streaming service and promoter as Golovkin for a while yet that fight hasn't happened to this day. They're talking about possibly doing it next but I'd bet you that he chooses Jaime Munguia instead. Just watch.

Hearn: If Canelo-Golovkin III Can't Happen, I'll Push DAZN For Golovkin-Andrade
https://www.boxingscene.com/hearn-if...ndrade--154422

I think the first two names are fair points for in his prime, although as you showed Mora wouldn't really do much to boost his resume.

Andrade and Charlo though are both more recent callouts and are part of the post prime for GGG. The Charlo callout you cited came after the 2nd Canelo fight when most agree G was an old fighter. Which is kind of how his career at 160 has been; lots of people calling him out after he hit his mid-to-late 30s