Who was the greater fighter?

**cfang** · 12-01-2020, 01:23 PM

Gone with tunney mainly due to the greb fights but this was very hard to choose. Ross was a great fighter.

**The Old LefHook** · 12-01-2020, 01:58 PM

I don't know enough about McClarnin or Ross to make a decent appraisal. Tunney one of the best ever.

**GhostofDempsey** · 12-01-2020, 02:56 PM

I would rank Ross higher. Ross has wins over fighters who were near or at the same juncture in his career. Though Canzoneri was better as a LW, he defeated some great welters. A washed up Ross went the distance with Armstrong in his last fight. Tunney didn't beat the best version of Dempsey, and the long count still factors in IMO. Greb was a considerably smaller man, a MW. We've never seen him fight so it's difficult to quantify with any degree of accuracy what Tunney was up against. Despite that Tunney was a very skilled boxer, great defense and would make a great LHW in any era.

**billeau2** · 12-01-2020, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by JAB5239

Who was the greater fighter of these two men based on resume and skills?

Barney Ross: best wins Jimmy McClarnin (2-1) Tony Canzoneri (2-0) and Cefirino Garcia (3-0)

Or

Gene Tunney: best wins Jack Dempsey (2-0) Harry Greb (2-2-1) and Tommy Loughran (1-0)

Feel free to add fighters on their resumes you think may be better than the ones I've chosen.

Also, Grebs record was taken from newspaper accounts, not Boxrec. My personal choice and opinion. Feel free to rip me a new one if you disagree.

Lastly.....I made this thread one, because Ross doesn't get enough attention here, and two because the IBRO has than ranked 20th (Tunney) and 21st (Ross) p4p.

Pick who you may and argue away!

It is a prejudice I freely admit I share... As much as I love an analytical approach to the things that make the Sweet Science so sweet... locked in my brain, always lurking to get free... is the notion that fighters that do not at least fight at Middle are midgets... I look at my wife who is 120 pounds soaking wet, and
contemplate two men at that weight fighting in out.

I am not being silly, as I am not proud of this sentiment... I see past it on the daily and certainly respect Ross as an equal of Tunney...

Better? I tend to idiolize Tunney because he was unique to me: He was one of a few fighters, maybe the only one, who actually was trained, mentored, and could execute technique and strategy from both the classical, figg, Sword based sytem, and the Modern Dempsey, shoulder roll, head movement, punch based system.

This makes Tunney, to me, one of the best fighters that ever lived... one of about 5 of the greatest.

**JAB5239** · 12-01-2020, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by GhostofDempsey

I would rank Ross higher. Ross has wins over fighters who were near or at the same juncture in his career. Though Canzoneri was better as a LW, he defeated some great welters. A washed up Ross went the distance with Armstrong in his last fight. Tunney didn't beat the best version of Dempsey, and the long count still factors in IMO. Greb was a considerably smaller man, a MW. We've never seen him fight so it's difficult to quantify with any degree of accuracy what Tunney was up against. Despite that Tunney was a very skilled boxer, great defense and would make a great LHW in any era.

In defense of Tunney, Greb chose to move up. Greb fought every great light heavyweight from that era just about and proved he was game against Gene. I totally agree with you about Ross' comp being closer to prime. Those Greb wins are huge though. I have Harry as the second greatest p4p fighter all time.

**billeau2** · 12-01-2020, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by JAB5239

In defense of Tunney, Greb chose to move up. Greb fought every great light heavyweight from that era just about and proved he was game against Gene. I totally agree with you about Ross' comp being closer to prime. Those Greb wins are huge though. I have Harry as the second greatest p4p fighter all time.

I swear to the high almighty:

If he plucked me up tomorrow and said "Youve been a good boy despite being mean to my challenged son Queenie, so I am giving you a choice: there are two chests in front of you... you can choose one, the one on the left has photo evidence of alien contact that is irrefutable... the chest on the right has footage of Greb... you can choose one, or the other..."

I would actually have to think about it!

**billeau2** · 12-01-2020, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by GhostofDempsey

I would rank Ross higher. Ross has wins over fighters who were near or at the same juncture in his career. Though Canzoneri was better as a LW, he defeated some great welters. A washed up Ross went the distance with Armstrong in his last fight. Tunney didn't beat the best version of Dempsey, and the long count still factors in IMO. Greb was a considerably smaller man, a MW. We've never seen him fight so it's difficult to quantify with any degree of accuracy what Tunney was up against. Despite that Tunney was a very skilled boxer, great defense and would make a great LHW in any era.

Great analysis! This post to me is an example when we have an opportunity to look more closely, split hairs, regarding the actual conditions of a fight. so many times people explain a victory and it is really in poor taste, or illogical... In this case it shows when we should look more closely at a victory.

Nice job agree about Dempsey.

**Willie Pep 229** · 12-01-2020, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by billeau2

I swear to the high almighty:

If he plucked me up tomorrow and said "Youve been a good boy despite being mean to my challenged son Queenie, so I am giving you a choice: there are two chests in front of you... you can choose one, the one on the left has photo evidence of alien contact that is irrefutable... the chest on the right has footage of Greb... you can choose one, or the other..."

I would actually have to think about it!

It's a no brainer, . . . Greb! The aliens pictures will show up on the History Channel a week later.

**billeau2** · 12-01-2020, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Willie Pep 229

It's a no brainer, . . . Greb! The aliens pictures will show up on the History Channel a week later.

Who was the greater fighter?