Mike Weaver vs Cleveland Williams

[Pugilist89]

If you read the thread carefully I asked a poster about Weaver, and whether he was a big puncher. I asked that for a reason. Namely could weaver exploit Williams?

Williams was past it after the accident... when he was fighting Ali he was not any longer able to fight as he had prior to the accident. That fight has to be taken with a grain of salt.

His chin wasn't affected by getting shot in the shoulder. He was a glass jaw.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Coetzee wouldn't beat either Williams or Liston lol. You're talking about the same Coetzee who was knocked out by Greg Page and Frank Bruno.

Page was not even known as a puncher but Coetzee's chin never held up well.

I guess you felt bad for Billeau being the only idiot still active in this thread, so you chimed in to keep him company?

It's fun watching you two try to out-****** each other.

Liston and Williams never proved resilient fighters. Great front runners against out- matched opposition, but not very tough guys. And while they passed for monsters in the early 60s, twenty years later Heavyweights fighting their description were fairly pedestrian.

That fact that you're unaware of Page's finishing ability speaks to your ignorance.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Me? sounds like you are referring to your own comment. Heck I gave you words of wisdom from two great heavyweights to back up the notion that experience is vital to success. Maybe it went over your head, so let me break it down real simple like: Weaver never had the ammy background to develop his craft like Williams. Now do you understand pookie?

Hahahaha.

You were totally picking your nose and eating your boogers while typing that.

[Rusty Tromboni]

This statement shows a distinct lack of knowledge Pook. It has to do with the concept of peer review, like in academia. Williams was well regarded as dangerous by fellow fighters. Kind of like Holly, remember that article I posted pook? Weaver was regarded as a tough journeyman for a reason... Just because the reason alludes you... well ya know!

Let me repeat something someone once told me: "when you lost just admit it." You are showing more and more a lack of fundamental boxing knowledge. You might want to post in the general for a while pook... come back when you learn something?

You've given me so much fodder for lobbing insults, let me take a moment to compliment you:
Never has anyone here demonstrated as you have such an ability to raise irrelevance to an art form.

[joseph5620]

I guess you felt bad for Billeau being the only idiot still active in this thread, so you chimed in to keep him company?

It's fun watching you two try to out-****** each other.

Liston and Williams never proved resilient fighters. Great front runners against out- matched opposition, but not very tough guys. And while they passed for monsters in the early 60s, twenty years later Heavyweights fighting their description were fairly pedestrian.

That fact that you're unaware of Page's finishing ability speaks to your ignorance.

Page was never considered a big puncher. So you're lying if you're claiming that. Coetzee did nothing that indicated he would beat Liston or Williams. The true big punchers folded him. So would Liston or Williams.



When did Coetzee show he was any more resilient than Liston or Williams? I'll wait.

[billeau2]

I guess you felt bad for Billeau being the only idiot still active in this thread, so you chimed in to keep him company?

It's fun watching you two try to out-****** each other.

Liston and Williams never proved resilient fighters. Great front runners against out- matched opposition, but not very tough guys. And while they passed for monsters in the early 60s, twenty years later Heavyweights fighting their description were fairly pedestrian.

That fact that you're unaware of Page's finishing ability speaks to your ignorance.

You calling someone ignorant? You don't know jack about Liston, no suprise... Pookie...you come up with these comments and they are from like outer space. Are you a space man? From the planet idiot?

[billeau2]

Hahahaha.

You were totally picking your nose and eating your boogers while typing that.

ok... Pookie are you feeling alright? I know I own you but its all in good fun... just settle down ok. Take one of your scotch in a large glass "neat" lol.

[billeau2]

You've given me so much fodder for lobbing insults, let me take a moment to compliment you:
Never has anyone here demonstrated as you have such an ability to raise irrelevance to an art form.

As usual, so you say, not how things are... Pookie darling get out more from that Jersey porch and like you tole me, see the world. Things that happen in your head are different than the real world... Now Pookie? being a Buddhist and a teacher and all, I like skillful means to show us the ways we need to learn, but your starting to scare me. Your about on the level of that other churl Queensbee. Thats precipitious a drop... Check your IQ it may be dropping.

[billeau2]

His chin wasn't affected by getting shot in the shoulder. He was a glass jaw.

Well now... there are things a fighter uses to help with weakness, and I am not so sure Williams had a glass jaw, but I will, for the sake of argument not take issue. Williams was able to be a threat and use his skills...and how old was he when he fought Ali? Honestly, I have not looked it up, but I would think Williams would be quite shopworn when he faced Ali.

Now, not comparing Jones to Williams, but Roy turned out to have a questionable chin when he could not avoid and intimidate with his own power and speed. Does that mitigate what he did up until Tarver found him?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Page was never considered a big puncher. So you're lying if you're claiming that. Coetzee did nothing that indicated he would beat Liston or Williams. The true big punchers folded him. So would Liston or Williams.



When did Coetzee show he was any more resilient than Liston or Williams? I'll wait.

48 of 58 wins were by KO.... it don't matter what he's "known" for, it matters what he did. Obviously, his defensive Boxing (and habit of impersonating jaba the hutt) attracted more attention than the outcome of his fights. But if you actually WATCHED the fight with Coetzee, you'd see he was throwing bombs. Bombs that would've put away MArshall, Machen and Martin.

Coetzee didn't lose because he was weak, he lost because he was predictable and crude. But his offense was more than Williams or Liston could handle.


Really, it's stupid we're even having this conversation. Liston quit on his stool. Marshal broke his jaw. Martin stopped him. Ali's phantom punch was sufficient for him to throw a fight where he'd suffer no injury. His best win was against a kid 20 pounds lighter.

You sound re.tarded trying to make a case for these guys against a killer like Coetzee.