A Ready to Roll James Toney vs Roy Jones

[billeau2]

Does Hammy ever talk about any boxers other than Roy Jones Jr. and James Toney? I haven't seen that phenomenon.

He sits and waits until any thread appears, especially one that compliments Tony and they flies into action. God forbid someone should appreciate the talents of Toney.

Though I must say... it crosses a line to make excuses for Toney when he fought Jones.

[IronDanHamza]

He sits and waits until any thread appears, especially one that compliments Tony and they flies into action. God forbid someone should appreciate the talents of Toney.

Though I must say... it crosses a line to make excuses for Toney when he fought Jones.

Yeah just typical garbage on all levels as usual.

A simple glance at my post history just shuts this nonsense down in an instant.

I can appreciate Toney’s skills, can also appreciate his hall of fame career. I just highlight facts and shout down the constant fantasy surrounding his career and fanboys don’t like it.

[Rockin']

I like Montel Griffin too.

Griffn was coming down to Galaxy back in the day, shortly following his Olympic performance. I don't know if Jackie was looking at him as a potential signing or if Griffin was just there, for what ever reason, during his journey. Either way he was there.

It was James' gym, no matter what. And that guy ran it as a rooster runs a yard. But when Griffin showed up, suddenly the yard was in chaos. I don't know what it was but James just could not get this guys rythme or something.

When James exited the ring, after having worked with Griffin, he was pissed. And when James gets pissed everybody in the gym will know about it. He was ranting and raving, what he was saying was pure frustration and rage.

Montell gave James fits in that ring. I spied over from my work a few times and James was talking a lot while boxing, ofcourse.

That was a bold decision made by Jackie and James. I remember thinking that Montell had throw James in to fits at Galaxy. Why him? ……...Rockin'

[Miles.Ahead]

Weight had nothing to do with why Toney lost.

[BKM-]

He sits and waits until any thread appears, especially one that compliments Tony and they flies into action. God forbid someone should appreciate the talents of Toney.

Though I must say... it crosses a line to make excuses for Toney when he fought Jones.

Got any ideas why he randomly chose Toney as a target? I mean, the man seems underrated nowadays. He's not talked about much anymore and not that highly ranked despite his success over several weight classes and decades of boxing. So I don't know about fanboys being the reason.

Toney seems objectively very impressive. He had a lot of attributes(athletic, power, cast iron jaw, heart) and skills(expert at his craft, could even mix it up and fight on the offensive as well). On top of that he took a lot of tough fights(Lost some, won many) and even went up in weight, never got stopped in his career. Not that many guys like this. He was gifted.

Maybe his shtick outside the ring hurt Hammy's feelings? I don't know, I'm not a James Toney fan but can find almost nothing but impressive aspects the more I look into him.

[billeau2]

Got any ideas why he randomly chose Toney as a target? I mean, the man seems underrated nowadays. He's not talked about much anymore and not that highly ranked despite his success over several weight classes and decades of boxing. So I don't know about fanboys being the reason.

Toney seems objectively very impressive. He had a lot of attributes(athletic, power, cast iron jaw, heart) and skills(expert at his craft, could even mix it up and fight on the offensive as well). On top of that he took a lot of tough fights(Lost some, won many) and even went up in weight, never got stopped in his career. Not that many guys like this. He was gifted.

Maybe his shtick outside the ring hurt Hammy's feelings? I don't know, I'm not a James Toney fan but can find almost nothing but impressive aspects the more I look into him.

I could never speak to Hammy's understanding... But regarding Toney the guy shows skills in the ring. You can literally watch film of Archie Moore and James Toney and see many of the same skills used. Toney with all his foibles always has been game, and yes, had some very impressive outings. but what perhaps really alludes some of Toney's critics, including Hammy, is how natural James is in the ring... How he can fight up, or down and adapt so well to the differences. Certainly this includes inconsistent outings, but Toney also was the type who would take a fight tomorrow lol.

Rein wrote about Toney and in an omage to James he described Toney as transforming: coming into the ring a hip hop laden, braggert, and when the fight starts, looking like he lives in the ring 24/7, doing so many things well, and doing them as second nature. Really showing the beauty of the Sweet Science.

There are different ways to judge a fighter, not everything is in the win loss column, or even the competition beaten. Tony certainly had his moments this way, but other aspects like how Toney went into the midst of the heavyweight division and was more than competative against the guys at the top, are impressive accomplishments that don't necessarily show up empirically. Much like the guy he seems to have studied (Archie Moore) Toney fought in many weight classes, and was always a dangerous opponent.

I tend to discount judges and decisions under certain circmstances... It certainly is fair to say that no judge was needed to confirm Jones had his way with James, but what about (despite the judges) how Toney gave a boxing clinic fighting Rahman and Sam Peter? Sure it can be said that the version of Holly he beat was lacking, but he showed it was no fluke imo in these heavyweight fights.

[HOUDINI563]

I was never a fan of either fighter. Jones had overwhelming natural ability; speed, punching power, and he was very accurate with his blows. Plus he was very well “enhanced”. Even Toney at his best would fall short even though he was the more talented boxer.

[IronDanHamza]

Got any ideas why he randomly chose Toney as a target? I mean, the man seems underrated nowadays. He's not talked about much anymore and not that highly ranked despite his success over several weight classes and decades of boxing. So I don't know about fanboys being the reason.

Toney seems objectively very impressive. He had a lot of attributes(athletic, power, cast iron jaw, heart) and skills(expert at his craft, could even mix it up and fight on the offensive as well). On top of that he took a lot of tough fights(Lost some, won many) and even went up in weight, never got stopped in his career. Not that many guys like this. He was gifted.

Maybe his shtick outside the ring hurt Hammy's feelings? I don't know, I'm not a James Toney fan but can find almost nothing but impressive aspects the more I look into him.

Wow.

Yeah mate he hurt my feelings so badly.

I literally do nothing but point out facts about James Toney, that’s it. I’m objective, break it down for what it is and well open for debate.

Fanboys don’t like that, but it is what is.

Nothing I say about James Toney isn’t true.

[The Old LefHook]

Hammy is a moray eel for Toney.

[IronDanHamza]

I could never speak to Hammy's understanding... But regarding Toney the guy shows skills in the ring. You can literally watch film of Archie Moore and James Toney and see many of the same skills used. Toney with all his foibles always has been game, and yes, had some very impressive outings. but what perhaps really alludes some of Toney's critics, including Hammy, is how natural James is in the ring... How he can fight up, or down and adapt so well to the differences. Certainly this includes inconsistent outings, but Toney also was the type who would take a fight tomorrow lol.

Rein wrote about Toney and in an omage to James he described Toney as transforming: coming into the ring a hip hop laden, braggert, and when the fight starts, looking like he lives in the ring 24/7, doing so many things well, and doing them as second nature. Really showing the beauty of the Sweet Science.

There are different ways to judge a fighter, not everything is in the win loss column, or even the competition beaten. Tony certainly had his moments this way, but other aspects like how Toney went into the midst of the heavyweight division and was more than competative against the guys at the top, are impressive accomplishments that don't necessarily show up empirically. Much like the guy he seems to have studied (Archie Moore) Toney fought in many weight classes, and was always a dangerous opponent.

I tend to discount judges and decisions under certain circmstances... It certainly is fair to say that no judge was needed to confirm Jones had his way with James, but what about (despite the judges) how Toney gave a boxing clinic fighting Rahman and Sam Peter? Sure it can be said that the version of Holly he beat was lacking, but he showed it was no fluke imo in these heavyweight fights.

I’ve never disputed that Toney is a natural when it comes to fighting. If anything that’s exactly what he is, a natural.

Obviously Archie Moore have similarities, Toney clearly took parts of Moore’s game and adapted his own version, the same way Adrien Broner clearly did the same with Toney.

Difference is Broner ain’t no James Toney and James Toney ain’t no Archie Moore.

Toney didn’t school Peter or Rahman under any stretch of the imagination. In fact, Toney didn’t really school anyone. “Schooling” is not something that Toney did. He competed with top level guys, beat some, lost to some, and struggled to clearly beat any of them.

The only “schooling” of Toney’s career was when Roy Jones schooled him. That’s a real schooling.

Could also say Reggie Johnson schooled Toney for 6 rounds but of course fights aren’t 6 rounds for a reason.