Dempsey must be a star!

[travestyny]

Absolutely. Also blacks were celebrating and whites took offense to it initiating beatings, shootings and lynching. It was a one sided “riot”.

But the riots didn't scare away all of the promoters that Dempsey claims wanted to put on the fight. He even signed with one. But he broke the contract. Do you blame Rickard for that? Just a simple question.


I mean, in a roundabout way I'm sure he had something to do with this. But he can't make a man break a contract, can he?

[Willie Pep 229]

Did you actually read the two articles that you posted to me?

It's saying exactly what I've told you. In fact, I've shared at least one of them on this board myself already. So I'm not sure what the problem is?

Wills didn't breach a contract. Just stop with the desperation. He already had a plan to fight Floyd Johnson before signing the contract and Fitz knew about it before he signed. Dempsey even went to the fight. Your own posts state exactly why the first contract didn't amount to anything. So you make no sense. Good try tho. Again, you can feel free to show us Harry Wills in court for breach of contract. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, so how was there a breach of contract when everyone was still on board after it was cleared up?

And what are you confused about? No one "sent Dempsey home with $10." What is he, a retarded child? The man signed a contract for $800,000 plus (more than the Tunney fight) and accepted $10 at the time of signing to bind the contract. I'm sure he was very cognizant of what he was doing.

In fact, let's let him clarify it for us.

LESS THAN TWO WEEKS BEFORE HE SIGNED THE CONTRACT THAT HE BROKE.

Oh is that right, Mr. Dempsey. You hear A LOT about promoters wanting to hold the fight. EVERYBODY seems to want to hold it? You don't say???? Pretty good for a bout with zero public interest, huh?

Using simple logic here. He loved what he saw in that contract. And since we already agreed that the promoter lived up to their side, that would mean Dempsey broke the contract for no good reason. We are back to the only truth that continues to stand here.

Now do we have to keep doing this? I'm bored of showing you guys the same thing over and over again just because you're too emotionally invested to face reality.

Sorry posted wrong article:

[Willie Pep 229]

Sorry posted wrong article:

One more try: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/Fitz%20W...20contract.pdf

[travestyny]

One more try: http://www.perno.com/Boxing/Fitz%20W...20contract.pdf

And what's your point? You already showed yourself the reason that the contract didn't come to anything.


And I've already explained that the situation was cleared up and Dempsey was able to enjoy his ringside seat to watch Wills beat up on a no hoper. Fun times.


This is the second time where you've tried to make Harry Wills, clearly the victim in this situation, into the culprit. That was the reason I called it idiocy and desperation. You really should cut it out.

[Willie Pep 229]

And what's your point? You already showed yourself the reason that the contract didn't come to anything.


And I've already explained that the situation was cleared up and Dempsey was able to enjoy his ringside seat to watch Wills beat up on a no hoper. Fun times.


This is the second time where you've tried to make Harry Wills, clearly the victim in this situation, into the culprit. That was the reason I called it idiocy and desperation. You really should cut it out.

Ok lets take this your way.

Dempsey doesn't invoke the 'no fight clause.' -- The Sept '25 contract is void because of a failure to pay. -- Dempsey signs a second contract on March 6th that he breaches.

This your your way, correct?

Then why do you say Dempsey ducked Wills?

If Dempsey wanted to avoid Wills:

1. He doesn't sign the Sept '25 contract, yet he did.

2. Dempsey uses the no fight clause to void the Sept. '25 contract, yet he didn't.

3. Dempsey doesn't re-negotiate the contract and doesn't re-sign on March 6th. Yet he did.

So if Dempsey is trying to avoid Wills why does he do these three things?

Doesn't this suggest to you that something more was wrong with the March 6th contract then just Dempsey avoiding Wills?

[travestyny]

Ok lets take this your way.

Dempsey doesn't invoke the 'no fight clause.' -- The Sept '25 contract is void because of a failure to pay. -- Dempsey signs a second contract on March 6th that he breaches.

This your your way, correct?

Then why do you say Dempsey ducked Wills?

If Dempsey wanted to avoid Wills:

1. He doesn't sign the Sept '25 contract, yet he did.

2. Dempsey uses the no fight clause to void the Sept. '25 contract, yet he didn't.

3. Dempsey doesn't re-negotiate the contract and doesn't re-sign on March 6th. Yet he did.

So if Dempsey is trying to avoid Wills why does he do these three things?

Doesn't this suggest to you that something more was wrong with the March 6th contract then just Dempsey avoiding Wills?

I've already stated what I believe. I think he got cold feet. I also believe Rickard got into his ear and worked his voodoo over him.

That doesn't change the fact that only he could break that contract. You tell me what was wrong with the contract that was worth more than $800,000.

Apparently Dempsey didn't find anything wrong with it because, as I've already shown, he said he would sign on the line when he gets what he wants. It's his signature on that contract.

[Willie Pep 229]

I've already stated what I believe. I think he got cold feet. I also believe Rickard got into his ear and worked his voodoo over him.

That doesn't change the fact that only he could break that contract. You tell me what was wrong with the contract that was worth more than $800,000.

Apparently Dempsey didn't find anything wrong with it because, as I've already shown, he said he would sign on the line when he gets what he wants. It's his signature on that contract.

I've already stated what I believe. I think he got cold feet.

So Jack Dempsey, and all that goes with that name, was confident in late 1925, but lost his nerve in Spring 1926?

I also believe Rickard got into his ear and worked his voodoo over him.

This I agree with, but it wasn't because Dempsey wanted to avoid Wills, it was because Dempsey wanted to go with Rickard, (Not cold feet; he had lost faith with the Chicago deal)** and Rickard wouldn't promote a Wills go.

That's not a duck.

P.S. Just because Dempsey signed the contract doesn't mean he understood a single word of it, other than what Fitzsimmons told him.


** Which is odd because Fitzsimmons and Dempsey seem to have been friends, not just business partners.

I don't know why Fitzsimmons walked away from his Chicago backers, but after Dempsey repudiated the March 6th contract in July, Fitz went to work as Dempsey's PR man for the Tunney fight. (I guess at some level Dempsey had to replace Kearns.)

Also, back in 1920, after the Miske fight (a Fitz's promotion) Dempsey bought Fitzsimmon's wife a $13,000 car. (A Model T cost only $650.00, so what kind of a car did he buy the wife?)

It's not just Dempsey who walks away from the March 6th contract, it looks as though Fitzsimmons walked away with him.

Do you know if Fitzsimmons testified at the 1932 law suit?

[travestyny]

I've already stated what I believe. I think he got cold feet.

So Jack Dempsey, and all that goes with that name, was confident in late 1925, but lost his nerve in Spring 1926?

I also believe Rickard got into his ear and worked his voodoo over him.

This I agree with, but it wasn't because Dempsey wanted to avoid Wills, it was because Dempsey wanted to go with Rickard, (Not cold feet; he had lost faith with the Chicago deal)** and Rickard wouldn't promote a Wills go.

That's not a duck.

I can't say whether he was ever confident. Getting in the ring was clearly an entirely different level of commitment than even signing a legally binding contract. Maybe he was more confident in his (and Tex's) legal team.

Yea ok. If you say so. In my world, if your #1 contender has been waiting for 6 years or so and you claim you've wanted to fight only that one man for 6 years and then you sign a contract, then break the contract to fight someone else...yep, it's a duck.

Especially when the state you try to run to actually wants you to fight the same man...so you run away to a third state to not fight the only guy you wanted to fight since becoming champion.

Come on. I don't even see a reason to discuss this further. The man told you himself when he sees a fair deal he will sign AND fight. He saw the deal. Obviously liked it. Signed. He didn't fight.

All you have to do is look at the history and pretty soon you'll realize these misses were not a coincidence.

I want you to do me a favor. Put yourself in Harry Wills shoes ( no really). Then claim it wasn't a duck.

P.S. Just because Dempsey signed the contract doesn't mean he understood a single word of it, other than what Fitzsimmons told him.


** Which is odd because Fitzsimmons and Dempsey seem to have been friends, not just business partners.

I don't know why Fitzsimmons walked away from his Chicago backers, but after Dempsey repudiated the March 6th contract in July, Fitz went to work as Dempsey's PR man for the Tunney fight. (I guess at some level Dempsey had to replace Kearns.)

Also, back in 1920, after the Miske fight (a Fitz's promotion) Dempsey bought Fitzsimmon's wife a $13,000 car. (A Model T cost only $650.00, so what kind of a car did he buy the wife?)

It's not just Dempsey who walks away from the March 6th contract, it looks as though Fitzsimmons walked away with him.

Do you know if Fitzsimmons testified at the 1932 law suit?

No idea if Fitz testified. The guy seems like a sleeze and was probably a part of some stalling scheme, but I'd rather not speculate. I'll just keep it to Dempsey perhaps getting cold feet.

[QueensburyRules]

Also, back in 1920, after the Miske fight (a Fitz's promotion) Dempsey bought Fitzsimmon's wife a $13,000 car. (A Model T cost only $650.00, so what kind of a car?

- -Interesting tidbit this. I doubt even a RR Silver Ghost costs half that.

My first thought was the massive 15 liter Bugatti straight 8 that could be had in any coach works itineration including a 2 Seater Sports Coupe for well connected young sports.

I'll get back after further inquiry.

[HOUDINI563]

The most expensive car sold in 1920 was a Locomobile Dual Cowl Phaeton priced at $10,000. However I am sure some custom made European autos could surpass this price.