For the Record: Ducking

[Combat Talk Radio]

im not sure which one youre talking about but its prob one that im not even thinking about....

im just talking about bob talking porter(before and after mean machine fight...previous year though bob said porter wasnt "elite").....then kenny saying "call" and crawford shooting the idea down

that all happned after porter lost to spence

The first video of Porter in my post above. That video was just before the Spence fight (Porter even says he's the WBC champion). That's the only one I'm saying happened BEFORE Porter lost.

Everything else you're correct.

[Combat Talk Radio]

I don't follow the game currently; I am purely a history geek, that's why you never encountered me except in this forum, History.

I had no clue who Porter was until I read the post.

First I listened to the interviews and then looked up their records.

(when looking at the two fighter's records I was more impressed with Porter's resume)

But that's actually irrelevant; I went into listening to the videos with no bias at all.

Now, using me as a litmus test, I am not a current fan, so I was surprised I recognized Crawford's name. (I never saw him fight.) This made me conclude that Crawford must be more popular with the casual fans/general sports fans than Porter.

Also Crawford was being interviewed in a more professional surrounding, which looked to be a more important media event than Porter's. Porter's interviewer came across a little amateur.

Taking all this into account I understood Crawford's dismissive and condescending tone.

(Remember, as you pointed out, at this point I thought they were both still champions; but one already looked better positioned than the other.)

In the interview Crawford wouldn't even say Porter's name; he kept referring to "that fight" or something vague like that. Crawford sounded like he was reciting from a prepared statement.

It all sounded like Crawford knew Porter needed him, and not the reverse.

(What I would really like to see a compassion of their fight purses/PPV pays, it would tell us more.)

I don't know how you define "duck" but I am of the mind that it can only be assessed once it is all said and done.

For now all I saw was Crawford using his position to his advantage.

P.S. In regards to me not knowing the chronology of events, you are correct this changes things, it makes it even worse for Porter. Now without a belt, I find no wonder in Crawford refusing to even acknowledge him. Porter will have to reposition himself because it doesn't sound like Crawford is interested.

Crawford is salty, because that's what Spence once did to him (no belt = no fight).

Petty BS.

[QueensburyRules]

Question: If a fighter's manager or promoter avoids a logical fight on behalf of a champion, should that be considered a duck on the fighter's part?

Or is a fighter allowed to simply say, "It's up to my promoter," and bear no blame for the fight being avoided?



Also, can anyone give a clear example of a fighter that ducked another fighter? Or a clear definition of what ducking is? We have lots of conversations about ducking but I think part of the disagreement here is that we don't have clear parameters for what ducking is.

- -U parameters clearly teensy and annal retentive.

[HOUDINI563]

Fighters fight. Managers and promoters make fights happen. Very rare for the fighter themselves to actively look to make a fight occur.

[Willie Pep 229]

The first video of Porter in my post above. That video was just before the Spence fight (Porter even says he's the WBC champion). That's the only one I'm saying happened BEFORE Porter lost.

Everything else you're correct.

That helps make sense of it . . . Porter's interview is while he is still champion; that's what made me think it was before Spence; the interviewer says something like, 'you both hold belts.'

Crawford on the other hand is speaking after Porter lost the title; it better explains his attitude.

Is Crawford now going to fight Spence? Spence's excuse is gone, Crawford hold s a title.

[travestyny]

- -U parameters clearly teensy and annal retentive.

Keep it up and you'll find yourself on the outside looking in, pops. I'm not interested in your senile rants. Post with some substance or in the iggy bin you go.

[travestyny]

Fighters fight. Managers and promoters make fights happen. Very rare for the fighter themselves to actively look to make a fight occur.

This is true.

But then do you think that gives license for a fighter to duck a fight by leaving it up to their promoter and manager?

Surely the fighter should take some responsibility for the people he/she employs.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is true.

But then do you think that gives license for a fighter to duck a fight by leaving it up to their promoter and manager?

Surely the fighter should take some responsibility for the people he/she employs.

I can understand your point in principle but doesn't it seem counterintuitive to pay someone 33% of your purse (a guy you call "manager") and then not take his advise?

Floyd Patterson is your type of guy, they say Patterson broke off with Cus D'Amato just so he could fight Liston. Some would say he should have kept up the duck. (D'Amato refused to deal with the IBC gangsters.)

[kafkod]

A CLEAR instance of a duck is Saunders ducking Canelo with bs excuses, same goes for Charlo & Plant imho. BJS/Plant both ducked highest payday offers as well as ability to become huge stars/money if they won,they both are only interested in bums,they both claimed 10 weeks isn't enough despite fighting bums on short notice & not taking punishment whatsoever in Plants case. Another lesser instance is ggg whos aging himself(despite crying Jacobs wasted several mos of reverse BenGGGamin button Gs time as a elite)but insists on fighting F lists like Rolls/Szeremeta instead of cashing out & solidifying his legacy before hes seen as a cherrypick & nobody will offer as much

That was a CLEAR duck by Canelo and the succession of excuses he used to try and justify it were all CLEARLY bogus:

"I won't negotiate under pressure ..."

"I have to attend a court case ..."

"I'm not a real middleweight ..."

"The WBC are corrupt, I refuse to fight for their belt .. "

[Combat Talk Radio]

That helps make sense of it . . . Porter's interview is while he is still champion; that's what made me think it was before Spence; the interviewer says something like, 'you both hold belts.'

Crawford on the other hand is speaking after Porter lost the title; it better explains his attitude.

Is Crawford now going to fight Spence? Spence's excuse is gone, Crawford hold s a title.

Spence already said that there were talks that fell through because of Crawford's unreasonable money demands, which Crawford confirmed.

Before all that, Spence was clear:




Crawford isn't getting 50-50 split. Especially not now that Spence is unified IBF/WBC while Crawford was just wobbled, two-pieced and dropped by an unknown.

If Spence fights Manny and beats him, Crawford might as well move down, because the payday would be even lower against Spence.

That's why I keep saying, Crawford has to accept his B-Side status. He has to.