For the Record: Ducking

[Combat Talk Radio]

Also, can anyone give a clear example of a fighter that ducked another fighter? Or a clear definition of what ducking is? We have lots of conversations about ducking but I think part of the disagreement here is that we don't have clear parameters for what ducking is.

Yes you do.

Fighter A (or someone who represents them) wants a fight
Fighter B refuses

It's that simple.

Best Example:

Eubank ducking Roy Jones and James Toney, after Toney called him out LIVE on the air (don't say he didn't, he ADMITTED doing it)

I personally feel that Eubank would have caught Roy with something like Lou del Valle did, but there it is. Ducking, plain and simple.




Second best example (Credit: Curt Henning:

Crawford says he's the best, he can beat everyone and anyone, but "ain't nothing I can do!!" about making fights.

Tom...er, Tim Bradley goes on LIVE TV and calls the PBC welterweights cowards

Bob Arum says he's considering making Crawford/Porter.

Kenny Porter says "GIMME DA CALL!" to Crawford; Al Haymon has given a green light to a fight with Shawn Porter.



Shawn Porter gives an interview saying he's open to fight if Crawford is open to fight.






Crawford, on LIVE stream:





That's ducking. Pure and simple.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Yeah true but I feel Jermall Charlo is probably the most blatant offender of someone who barks really loud only when he knows there is zero possibility of making a fight but when the fights become available he’s very tame and quiet. If I can call anyone a sucker I’d start with him

You're describing Crawford, bro.

[Ben Bolt]

Let's see, you mean like Robinson ducked Burley, Duran ducked Buchanan, Leonard ducked Hearns and Dempsey ducked Wills? Meanwhile, Rocky only ducked his manager Al Weil, the grasping ***.

The point was, a lineal World champ loses a lot of credibility if he ducks the logical challenger.

An alphabet title holder doesn’t have to worry about that. In the eyes of WBC or WBA, and to the youngsters posting in the non stop boxing forum, he would still be a legitimate ‘world’ champ, even if his last title defense was against my 90-year-old grandma.

Edited: But, of course, she had had to pay WBC/WBA the sanction fee. Otherwise, they hadn't accept her as the mandatory challenger.

[JohnCastellanos]

You're describing Crawford, bro.

I was gonna say him but I don’t wanna make anybody feel inferior and also don’t want anyone calling me a racist but I could also put Leo Santa Cruz to balance it out

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes you do.

Fighter A (or someone who represents them) wants a fight
Fighter B refuses

It's that simple.

Best Example:

Eubank ducking Roy Jones and James Toney, after Toney called him out LIVE on the air (don't say he didn't, he ADMITTED doing it)

I personally feel that Eubank would have caught Roy with something like Lou del Valle did, but there it is. Ducking, plain and simple.




Second best example (Credit: Curt Henning:

Crawford says he's the best, he can beat everyone and anyone, but "ain't nothing I can do!!" about making fights.

Tom...er, Tim Bradley goes on LIVE TV and calls the PBC welterweights cowards

Bob Arum says he's considering making Crawford/Porter.

Kenny Porter says "GIMME DA CALL!" to Crawford; Al Haymon has given a green light to a fight with Shawn Porter.



Shawn Porter gives an interview saying he's open to fight if Crawford is open to fight.






Crawford, on LIVE stream:





That's ducking. Pure and simple.

Didn't sound like a duck to me, just classic positioning.

Crawford was in a position to make Porter wait, so he was dismissive.

Both interviews sounded like business as usual; 130 years and counting since The Great John L. made Kilrain wait.

But now we may never know; this all became moot when Porter lost the SD to Spence.

I don't see any reason why Crawford would be motivated to take the fight now.

[Combat Talk Radio]

Didn't sound like a duck to me, just classic positioning.

Crawford was in a position to make Porter wait, so he was dismissive.

Crawford said he would beat everyone and his promoter specifically called out Porter as an opponent.

Crawford didn't back off until Kenny Porter said "GIMME DA CALL!"

Maybe you forgot, but that all went down BEFORE Shawn took an L.

I don't see any reason why Crawford would be motivated to take the fight now.

Because as we both know, Shawn Porter is (A) the one most likely to give Crawford problems as a solid test and (B) the best way to measure whether Crawford is truly better than Spence.

If Crawford sparks Porter out, he's clearly better than Spence.

ANY other outcome, Crawford is just another B-side.

It lets HIM know (Crawford) where his place truly is.

That's what's so good about Porter; he's the best test for anyone. Nobody has an easy night against him when he's full-on linebacker.

SO if Crawford manages to (and WITHOUT ASTERISKS), he should easily be acknowledged as the top guy. Then a Spence fight makes perfect sense.

[Curt Henning]

Didn't sound like a duck to me, just classic positioning.

Crawford was in a position to make Porter wait, so he was dismissive.

Both interviews sounded like business as usual; 130 years and counting since The Great John L. made Kilrain wait.

But now we may never know; this all became moot when Porter lost the SD to Spence.

I don't see any reason why Crawford would be motivated to take the fight now.

maybe you should wake up....and actually know what you are talking about

all of that stuff relevated posted between porter and crawford happened AFTER spence/porter...AFTER

and now, after crawford openly dismissed porter on live tv, he just started barking his name AGAIN!

some people have just drawn a line in the sand and refuse to believe that the side they stand on is the one looking bad

[Combat Talk Radio]

maybe you should wake up....and actually know what you are talking about

all of that stuff relevated posted between porter and crawford happened AFTER spence/porter...AFTER

and now, after crawford openly dismissed porter on live tv, he just started barking his name AGAIN!

some people have just drawn a line in the sand and refuse to believe that the side they stand on is the one looking bad

One correction: the Porter interview was before the Spence fight. The Crawford/DAZN was after. But Kenny "GIMME DA CALL!" Porter was screaming that back in late 2019. He just kept screaming it after Porter took an L.

[Curt Henning]

One correction: the Porter interview was before the Spence fight. The Crawford/DAZN was after. But Kenny "GIMME DA CALL!" Porter was screaming that back in late 2019. He just kept screaming it after Porter took an L.

im not sure which one youre talking about but its prob one that im not even thinking about....

im just talking about bob talking porter(before and after mean machine fight...previous year though bob said porter wasnt "elite").....then kenny saying "call" and crawford shooting the idea down

that all happned after porter lost to spence

[Willie Pep 229]

maybe you should wake up....and actually know what you are talking about

all of that stuff relevated posted between porter and crawford happened AFTER spence/porter...AFTER

and now, after crawford openly dismissed porter on live tv, he just started barking his name AGAIN!

some people have just drawn a line in the sand and refuse to believe that the side they stand on is the one looking bad

I don't follow the game currently; I am purely a history geek, that's why you never encountered me except in this forum, History.

I had no clue who Porter was until I read the post.

First I listened to the interviews and then looked up their records.

(when looking at the two fighter's records I was more impressed with Porter's resume)

But that's actually irrelevant; I went into listening to the videos with no bias at all.

Now, using me as a litmus test, I am not a current fan, so I was surprised I recognized Crawford's name. (I never saw him fight.) This made me conclude that Crawford must be more popular with the casual fans/general sports fans than Porter.

Also Crawford was being interviewed in a more professional surrounding, which looked to be a more important media event than Porter's. Porter's interviewer came across a little amateur.

Taking all this into account I understood Crawford's dismissive and condescending tone.

(Remember, as you pointed out, at this point I thought they were both still champions; but one already looked better positioned than the other.)

In the interview Crawford wouldn't even say Porter's name; he kept referring to "that fight" or something vague like that. Crawford sounded like he was reciting from a prepared statement.

It all sounded like Crawford knew Porter needed him, and not the reverse.

(What I would really like to see a comparison of their fight purses/PPV pays, it would tell us more.)

I don't know how you define "duck" but I am of the mind that it can only be assessed once it is all said and done.

For now all I saw was Crawford using his position to his advantage.

P.S. In regards to me not knowing the chronology of events, you are correct this changes things, it makes it even worse for Porter. Now without a belt, I find no wonder in Crawford refusing to even acknowledge him. Porter will have to reposition himself because it doesn't sound like Crawford is interested.