Jack Dempsey's Refusal to Fight Joe Jeanette

[travestyny]

NY Post 1953:
Jack Johnson held the title from 1910 to 1915 and the big man's easy victories over a string of white contenders in that period had been unpopular--among whites, that is. Moreover, come the Twenties, the kkk was riding high, bed sheets flapping in the wind, and lynching fever was strong in the South. The bigger brains in Washington quite likely did fear that a mixed heavyweight fight would fan the flames. The New York Boxing Commission, well this side of the Mason-Dixon line and with the eloquent James A. Farley to carry the gloves, seemed to work hard for the fight to happen. Dempsey always believed this stemmed more from a large respect for the black vote in New York than anything else. "The thing became a political issue, the public was being told by the commission I had to fight Wills and those same people would tell me in private they knew the fight would never be allowed to happen."

So though the public was largely calling for this fight since 1922, the only reason that Farley wanted it was to secure the black vote.

Ok. What's the problem??? Again, this is another person that wants the fight. Why didn't Dempsey?

So he broke the contract because they told him secretly that the fight wouldn't be allowed to happen?

Then why not just keep the $300,000 as stipulated by the contract if the fight didn't come off?

Because he's lying


Maybe you want to recheck the historical record:

Phoenix Tribune -- July 1 1922
Dempsey is Yellow, Says Noted Writer

Jack Dempsey....is afraid to meet Harry Wills...is the way two of the best sporting authorities of the country, (white) summed up the repeated refusal of Dempsey to meet the colored contender. We heartily agree with them.

Great Falls Tribune -- September 12, 1922
Polo Grounds Stadum Would Permit Cheap Seats for Wills' and Champ's Encounter

Considering the foregoing facts it is inconceivable how Dempsey can any longer dodge a meeting with Wills.

The Chicago Whip -- January 22, 1922
Wills and Dempsey

The method Dempsey is employing to dodge the issue of meeting Wills is simply ludicrous, when he persists in saying that the public does not want such a match. Do you think for a moment that W. A. Brady, a man who has had years of study of handling the public, would attempt to stage such a match where he not convinced of its popular demand? If so, you have another thought coming, for Brady is no novice at the boxing game, and when he speaks, it is with force.

St. Paul Echo / The Negro Press
Dempsey's New Championship

Dempsey had the brazen face to say that for five years he has been trying to get Harry in the ring. We must at least compliment Dempsey's nerve; it certainly takes nerve to say publicly, boldly and in big print something that everybody knows is untrue. Wills has been the one chasing Dempsey, since the memory of the fun runneth not to the contrary

Has the boxing commission ever had to threaten Wills to try to make him contract with Dempsey? Has the commission ever had to order Wills to set a date for a bout with Dempsey? Has wills ever forfeited $50,000 just to keep from meeting Dempsey? Has any promoter ever had to get an injunction against Wills to try to make him live up to contract to box Dempsey? Has Wills ever pretended, as Dempsey has pretended, that the lack of financial inducement stood in the way?

Phoenix Tribune - Aug 19, 1922
It would seem to the casual observer that there is a concerted movement on foot to assure the white race of maintaining the title belt for heavyweights. The constant dodging of Dempsey himself and the strategic moves of his many white friends are but indications that they fear the crown will pass to a colored man if Dempsey should meet Wills in a championship bout.

The Broad Ax - October 2nd, 1926
The downfall of Mr. Jack Dempsey...is not unlike the plight of a white man, who having been injured in a wreck, preferred death to a ride to the hospital in an ambulance which bore the body of a colored man.

Mr. Dempsey, aided by Mr. Rickard and several other good American "sportsmen," did not think it was ethical to fight Mar. harry Wills, and those years of dodging--not fighting--took their toll from Mr. Dempsey's once husky frame.

Phoenix Tribune -- Sept. 16, 1922
Dempsey is Still Trying to Dodge Match with Wills

Mr. Dempsey must think that Wills is somewhat of a "Panther," for he continually refuses--not in words--but in actions, to be enticed to sit on a three legged stool opposite the bronze adonis. And why? Just because he knows that when that fateful day comes, the championship is likely, very likely to once again change hands.

The Chicago Whip

Dempsey has succeeded in dodging Wills for some time, even though it is a known fact that the bronze fighter has been for some time the most logical contender for a chance at the championship trophy.

New York Herald -- June 11, 1922

Dempsey apparently is dodging this one very carefully. As carefully as Wilson is dodging Greb, and Kilbane is dodging Johnny Dundee.

Some time ago Jack Kearns said, "Dempsey will fight Wills if the public demands the bout."

The public is demanding the bout about as emphatically as the public ever has demanded a bout.

The Seattle Star -- June 14, 1922
Expert thinks Dempsey is Dodging Harry Wills

Dempsey already has staggered prospective promoters with a tip that he wants $500,000 for his next big performance.

If Wills would be willing to accept about $50 for his share, then the fight might be possible.

Grand Forks Herald -- July 17, 1922

Jack Dempsey was unquestionably dodging a bout with Harry Wills. Whether he feared his prowess or was disinclined to box a colored fight4er is not known, but he had no desire to run afoul of the New York Commission and has signed a blanket contract to meet Wills probably next July 4th.

La Plata -- May 18, 1923

In taking on Tom Gibbons in a 15 round "fight"...Jack Dempsey again dodged Harry Wills, the dangerous Negro Champion.

[Willie Pep 229]

So let me get this straight. They forced his hand....by making him sign a contract.

Is that now your official stance?

Did Dempsey sign this contract after Fitz bounced that check, Willy?

And did the contract clearly state the parameters for the money being paid?

Let me know, bro.


Fitzsimmons conned them you say. Who signed the contract? Did Dempsey sign it or not? And was it worth more money than the Tunney contract? And did it state he can keep a whopping $300,000 if the fight didn't come off for whatever reason?

Did the promoter follow the contract? You dodged that one.
It's a simple question with a factual answer.

They forced his hand....by making him sign a contract.

No they were not involved when Dempsey signed with Fitzsimmons; the "couldn't" I was referring to was their inability to get him to honor the contract.

Did Dempsey sign this contract after Fitz bounced that check, Willy?

I don't know, he must have signed it while he was still in Chicago, I am suggesting he lost faith on the ride home to New York and ran, scared, right back into Tex Rickard's arms. I suspect he felt quite foolish on the ride home, with only ten dollars in his pocket. But if he signed it before or after you can tell me I feel certain he must have signed before he left Chicago, and before the Chicago AC was involved.

And did the contract clearly state the parameters for the money being paid?

I sure it did, why else would Fitzsimmons have him sign it? (Maybe it was one of those Don King contracts, balnk to be filled in later. Just kidding; but King use to actually get fighters to do that.)


Fitzsimmons conned them you say. Who signed the contract? Did Dempsey sign it or not?

Me thinks Fitzsimmons realized after Dempsey left that he didn't actually have Dempsey, and that Dempsey was going to bail out on him, so looked to get what he could out of the signed contract and found a few pigeons (Chicago AC).

Yea Dempsey signed a contract with Fitzsimmons. Fitzsimmins sold the contract.

And was it worth more money than the Tunney contract?

I don't know. The bird in the hand turned out to be very close to $800,000 plus for the Tunney fight. That was (I think) $680,000 from guarantee and gate %, and the rest from film and radio.

I don't know what the 'two in the bush' were offering . . . $800,000 sounds right, but I likely got that from you, so I'll ask you to confirm that.


And did it state he can keep a whopping $300,000 if the fight didn't come off for whatever reason?

Possibly! I am not aware. But irrelevant because I don't think Dempsey had any intention of going back to Chicago under any circumstances. Which makes me repeat, I think Fitz had that figured out and dumped the contract. Dempsey signed with Richard for Tunney very soon after he returned to New York.

Did the promoter follow the contract?

OK! I will take you at your word on that, they did! -- I really have no clue. But it didn't matter, Dempsey was long gone. They bought crap.

[travestyny]

They forced his hand....by making him sign a contract.

No they were not involved when Dempsey signed with Fitzsimmons; the "couldn't" I was referring to was their inability to get him to honor the contract.

Did Dempsey sign this contract after Fitz bounced that check, Willy?

I don't know, he must have signed it while he was still in Chicago, I am suggesting he lost faith on the ride home to New York and ran, scared, right back into Tex Rickard's arms. I suspect he felt quite foolish on the ride home, with only ten dollars in his pocket. But if he signed it before or after you can tell me I feel certain he must have signed before he left Chicago, and before the Chicago AC was involved.

And did the contract clearly state the parameters for the money being paid?

I sure it did, why else would Fitzsimmons have him sign it? (Maybe it was one of those Don King contracts, balnk to be filled in later. Just kidding; but King use to actually get fighters to do that.)


Fitzsimmons conned them you say. Who signed the contract? Did Dempsey sign it or not?

Me thinks Fitzsimmons realized after Dempsey left that he didn't actually have Dempsey, and that Dempsey was going to bail out on him, so looked to get what he could out of the signed contract and found a few pigeons (Chicago AC).

Yea Dempsey signed a contract with Fitzsimmons. Fitzsimmins sold the contract.

And was it worth more money than the Tunney contract?

I don't know. The bird in the hand turned out to be very close to $800,000 plus for the Tunney fight. That was (I think) $680,000 from guarantee and gate %, and the rest from film and radio.

I don't know what the 'two in the bush' were offering . . . $800,000 sounds right, but I likely got that from you, so I'll ask you to confirm that.


And did it state he can keep a whopping $300,000 if the fight didn't come off for whatever reason?

Possibly! I am not aware. But irrelevant because I don't think Dempsey had any intention of going back to Chicago under any circumstances. Which makes me repeat, I think Fitz had that figured out and dumped the contract. Dempsey signed with Richard for Tunney very soon after he returned to New York.

Did the promoter follow the contract?

OK! I will take you at your word on that, they did! -- I really have no clue. But it didn't matter, Dempsey was long gone. They bought crap.

So to summarize all you've written above....


Dempsey indeed broke a valid contract that the promoter followed perfectly.

Is that correct?


Just to make this crystal clear. Dempsey signed a NEW contract when Chicago Coliseum Club entered the fray. You seem to try to be painting this as he once signed with Fitz and then Fitz just sold it with no input from Dempsey. Not the way it happened, buddy.

[Willie Pep 229]

So to summarize all you've written above....


Dempsey indeed broke a valid contract that the promoter followed perfectly.

Is that correct?

Yes on breaking the contract.

You know the second part better than I do; I'll take you at your word, they did!

[Willie Pep 229]

So to summarize all you've written above....


Dempsey indeed broke a valid contract that the promoter followed perfectly.

Is that correct?

Did you read what I wrote? No comments on my opinion?

[travestyny]

Did you read what I wrote? No comments on my opinion?

What opinion are you referring to? You gave lots of opinions and "me thinks" but none of them add up.

Everything that I've said has been verified.

Guarantee of $800,000 (and then a percentage of the gate as well.)

$300,000 on August 5th that he can keep if the fight doesn't come off.

New Contract was signed in March of '26. Original was September of '25.


And he did try to go back to Chicago. He tried to have the Tunney fight there but couldn't because they had an injunction against him to fight only Wills.

So it seems to me that we both agree that Dempsey broke this contract that was followed by the promoter perfectly.


If that's not a duck, then ducking doesn't exist.

[Willie Pep 229]

What opinion are you referring to? You gave lots of opinions and "me thinks" but none of them add up.

Everything that I've said has been verified.

Guarantee of $800,000 (and then a percentage of the gate as well.)

$300,000 on August 5th that he can keep if the fight doesn't come off.

New Contract was signed in March of '26. Original was September of '25.


And he did try to go back to Chicago. He tried to have the Tunney fight there but couldn't because they had an injunction against him to fight only Wills.

So it seems to me that we both agree that Dempsey broke this contract that was followed by the promoter perfectly.


If that's not a duck, then ducking doesn't exist.

My turn to ask you a question:

Dempsey broke a contract for a rematch with Carpentier. Did Dempsey duck C****ntier?

Every broken contract doesn't constitute a duck. Have you ever looked at how often SRR broke contracts, were they all ducks? Hell, SRR use to pull out of fights while sitting in his dressing room, was he ducking his opponent or worried he wasn't going to get a fair deal?

[travestyny]

My turn to ask you a question:

Dempsey broke a contract for a rematch with Carpentier. Did Dempsey duck C****ntier?

Spelling on purpose...?

Was this before or after he fought him? (sorry, I see now it says rematch.)

He knocked him out in 4. What would be the reason for fighting him again other than to duck his #1 challenger?

Every broken contract doesn't constitute a duck. Have you ever looked at how often SRR broke contracts, were they all ducks? Hell, SRR use to pull out of fights while sitting in his dressing room, was he ducking his opponent or worried he wasn't going to get a fair deal?

Maybe he did duck fighters. Give us the details. Let's say he had a #1 contender for at least 4 years and the public was asking for it, but he decides not to fight of his own volition. I'd say it's a duck. Why wouldn't it be?

Give us the details of the contract. It's not only about the existence of a contract. It's that the contract was valid, fair, and followed perfectly by those involved. Right?

[QueensburyRules]

So to summarize all you've written above....


Dempsey indeed broke a valid contract that the promoter followed perfectly.

Is that correct?


Just to make this crystal clear. Dempsey signed a NEW contract when Chicago Coliseum Club entered the fray. You seem to try to be painting this as he once signed with Fitz and then Fitz just sold it with no input from Dempsey. Not the way it happened, buddy.

- -U bipolar boxing expert/lawyer = Priceless or Princess depending on the spelling...yup, U happens!

[travestyny]

- -U bipolar boxing expert/lawyer = Priceless or Princess depending on the spelling...yup, U happens!

Go get a friend, pops. I don't want to discuss your lack of mental fortitude any longer.

Tell it to someone who actually cares about you. And for God's sake, take your meds!