Jack Dempsey's Refusal to Fight Joe Jeanette

[Willie Pep 229]

Not trying to be a jerk but I can't think of a way to ask this and it not seem at least a bit jerky.

Is there a good reason to give any ****s about what Nat Fleischer has to say about anything?

He makes **** and plagiarizes. I don't go to any lying-stealing friends for truth, why would I a historian?

On top of that, Bio book all kiss the ass of the subject, hard. I've not read a single bio that wasn't dead-set on putting over the subject.

So, Nat's bio of Dempsey really doesn't mean anything to me, but, I am willing to admit you're more knowledgeable of the period and would appreciate a good reason to give a damn about Nat.

Why wouldn't I just read Richard K Foxx's or Egan's or Miller's or whoever's original rather than Nat's mythological version of their originals?

Nat Fleischer -- now there's a name I'll call overrated. -- My personal annoyance comes from his BS claim he was at the Johnson-Willard fight in Havana and proceeded to back Johnson's lie that it was 103 degrees.

We now today know it was in the mid 70s, and cloudy that day, and I doubt very much Fleischer was even there.

A self-aggrandizing man telling too many apocryphal stories; overused as 'an appeal to authority'.

[Marchegiano]

Nat Fleischer -- now there's a name I'll call overrated. -- My personal annoyance comes from his BS claim he was at the Johnson-Willard fight in Havana and proceeded to back Johnson's lie that it was 103 degrees.

We now today know it was in the mid 70s, and cloudy that day, and I doubt very much Fleischer was even there.

A self-aggrandizing man telling too many apocryphal stories; overused as 'an appeal to authority'.

Son'uva'*****

I just got Nat slapped, again. I didn't know that Willie, and was of ignorant belief it was a hot and sunny day. Didn't even know that was Nat....Just 'common knowledge" I never looked into.

Nat makes fools of of fans from the grave.

[Willie Pep 229]

Son'uva'*****

I just got Nat slapped, again. I didn't know that Willie, and was of ignorant belief it was a hot and sunny day. Didn't even know that was Nat....Just 'common knowledge" I never looked into.

Nat makes fools of of fans from the grave.

He was just backing Jack Johnson's story. He was a big Johnson supporter. They say he bought JJ's account of the supposed 'fix' from him (but never published it because he knew it was bogus) just so he could push some cash the Champ's way. There was a good side to the man. But boy . . . he could sling the ****.

[HOUDINI563]

Disagree on Fleischer. He was THERE throughout all this and his story aligns perfectly with the known and very well understood history. Anything else is revisionist crap designed to deceive.

[HOUDINI563]

FYI Fleischer devotes a full chapter to the Johnson Willard bout in “50 years at Ringside” providing many details. There is no great thought that he was not present at the event. There is no great thought that he made things up. Again revisionist BS.

[HOUDINI563]

Regarding Havana weather. My neighbors are Cuban and they tell me Havana in April can reach over 90 degrees with very high humidity.

Fleischer never supported Johnson’s claim that the bout was fixed. He devotes a full chapter to this bout in 50 years at ringside providing details, discussions with Willard and his team. Lying about discussions/events and naming where and when the discussions occurred are never a good idea if you are making things up.

[QueensburyRules]

- -I disproved the boxing reported temps in Havana 15 years ago and it was easy.

The caveat is that the heavy boxing canvas had been absorbing solar rays for hours, so it may well have been like the proverbial cat on a hot tin roof.

Also possible some smarty pants got his hands on a thermometer to take a ring side temp reading.

If U follow the grazing herds media thru the ages, they graze the same pastures as their leader, the whiz kid.

[Willie Pep 229]

Regarding Havana weather. My neighbors are Cuban and they tell me Havana in April can reach over 90 degrees with very high humidity.

Fleischer never supported Johnson’s claim that the bout was fixed. He devotes a full chapter to this bout in 50 years at ringside providing details, discussions with Willard and his team. Lying about discussions/events and naming where and when the discussions occurred are never a good idea if you are making things up.

I taught for 30 years in Hialeah Florida but I'm not going to go the route, 'who knows more Cuban.'

Instead just read this:

. . . There is only one problem: it appears that these long-passed-down accounts of the heat in Havana that day, including mine, are wrong. Arly Allen, in his recent biography of Jess Willard, matter-of-factly states that the temperature may have reached 70 by the end of the fight. He cites multiple sources, including the National Police Gazette, which describes how “overcoats were in evidence” amid a “chilly wind,” and sportswriter Frank G. Menke’s story for the Kansas City Post, in which he describes the day as “partly cloudy and cool.” Allen’s trump card, though, is The Havana Daily Post, which, on April 6, 1915, recorded the previous day’s weather: high temperature, 70.7 degrees; low, 59, with a 20-mph northerly wind. It’s hard to think of a more authoritative source for the weather in Havana on April 5 than a Havana newspaper from April 6. . . .

Full article: https://www.paulbeston.com/blog/how-hot-was-it

[QueensburyRules]

- -BTW, Nat woulda been 26 at the time of Johnson/Willard, and boats from NYC cheap as well as Cuban accommodations, ect.

Just sayin'...

[HOUDINI563]

He wrote in 50 years at ringside that he spent numerous vacations in Havana prior to attending the Willard Johnson bout.

The only thing he gets wrong is the KO where he includes a right to the heart as one of the deciding blows but in the days before instant replays I can’t find fault. If you can find the version of this bout that shows the entire 26th round there is a right hand prior to the final blow that buckles Johnsons knees. I could see if Nat was sitting at the wrong angle to this blow it could have been interpreted as a punch higher on the chest.

Willard comment was that “it was hotter than hell” in that ring that day.