Was Hagler down against Roldan?

[elfag]

punch landed and hagler fell

not the best angle but I see 1. a landed punch, 2. no tripping/entangled legs and 3. no shoving.

maybe hagler feels it wasnt a big punch and he slipped but if you "slip" while being punched, its a knock down.


inb4 but but but hagler wasnt hurt, ok that is the very definition of a flash knockdown.

[ShoulderRoll]

A punch is thrown but the fist misses, what actually lands is the forearm/wrist on the back of Hagler's head.

That pulls him forward and his feet come out from under him.

I time stamped the video:

[The Old LefHook]

There was no knockdown. Slow motion and the fact that Queensbree is arguing for a knockdown make this quite clear.

[Willie Pep 229]

The left swipes over the top of Hagler's head, the punch settles down on the back of Hagler's head and Roldan is able to pull him to the deck.

Does that constituent a KD call?

But something seems odd about Hagler's positioning/balance.

Is there another angle showing whether the right hand landed or not?

Something seems to have put Hagler off balance before the left swipes over his head.

[QueensburyRules]

The left swipes over the top of Hagler's head, the punch settles down on the back of Hagler's head and Roldan is able to pull him to the deck.

Does that constituent a KD call?

But something seems odd about Hagler's positioning/balance.

Is there another angle showing whether the right hand landed or not?

Something seems to have put Hagler off balance before the left swipes over his head.

- -Something?

Last I heard the flush right hand is the most prolific punch used in the history knockouts and knockdowns followed by the left hook, here showcased in perfect sequence.

This topic illustrates everything that can go wrong in a trial by jury.

[Rockin']

A legal blow was never landed, no knockdown......Rockin'

[billeau2]

This is a great debate. I also do not trust my eyes so I like to listen to people who seem to have good eyes for these playback moments.

[The Old LefHook]

The pull caught Marvin at a moment when both feet were in the air. He was trying to be fleet. Even if a man knocks you off balance with a legal punch and then pulls you down, there is no legal knockdown. Marvin was not even knocked off balance. He merely hustled himself off balance. Roldan could compete with any middleweight. The only reason he was never a champion is because he fought in an ATG's era.

[Willie Pep 229]

The pull caught Marvin at a moment when both feet were in the air. He was trying to be fleet. Even if a man knocks you off balance with a legal punch and then pulls you down, there is no legal knockdown. Marvin was not even knocked off balance. He merely hustled himself off balance. Roldan could compete with any middleweight. The only reason he was never a champion is because he fought in an ATG's era.

I can see that being the cause; it looks as though he is trying to 'use footwork' in the middle of an exchange, not something we consider to be a Hagler long suit.

So no right hand!

When looking at the Nevada Athletic Commission rules for Unarmed Combat there seems to be no written definition or description as to what is a Knockdown.

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-...l#NAC467Sec740

[Mario040481]

I can see that being the cause; it looks as though he is trying to 'use footwork' in the middle of an exchange, not something we consider to be a Hagler long suit.

So no right hand!

When looking at the Nevada Athletic Commission rules for Unarmed Combat there seems to be no written definition or description as to what is a Knockdown.

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-...l#NAC467Sec740

Notice in the very first rule they use the word "seconds," in describing the proper way to handle a KD? I know most say the count is just a count and not a count of "seconds" and I generally believe that too. but finding it officially worded as such is pretty difficult