The Disappointment Hall Of Fame

[Rusty Tromboni]

I believe Wilder (especially now) is much more reminiscent of Foreman than Marciano. Foreman and Wilder both had some giant vulnerabilities, whereas Marciano was a near perfect boxer who barely needed to change or augment the techniques that Goldman taught.

WTF!?!?!?

Maybe not post when you've been drinking?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Very true, great post.

Have you even seen any of those guys fight?

I don't know how I could make that post, or agree with it, and still maintain any sense of self-respect.

Not that it's the first comparison I'd make, but if anything Foreman and Marciano have the more similar style/approach.

All three are power punchers but there's a direct relationship between the accuracy and amount of power in each individual punch, and the volume of punches thrown.


And since ypu guys don't mind comparing fighters of insane size disparity, let me flesh things out further:

Compare Pryor and Harada to said individuals.

[GhostofDempsey]

I believe Wilder (especially now) is much more reminiscent of Foreman than Marciano. Foreman and Wilder both had some giant vulnerabilities, whereas Marciano was a near perfect boxer who barely needed to change or augment the techniques that Goldman taught.

In what way was Marciano a "near perfect boxer"? Nearly every boxing historian or trainer/coach will give you a top to bottom breakdown as to why he was nothing of the sort.

[Marchegiano]

That's ridiculously unfair.

Marciano never had to fight a Fury.

Hell, I wouldn't pick him to beat Usyk.

And he considered Ingo a bridge too far.

If Wilder looks like anybody it's Ingo. Though, Wilder is much more professional and Ingo probably wasn't as hapless skill-wise.

Marciano's phantom overhead right ends Fury, period. Fury has never done anything to show he can handle it and has been KD by a simple looping overhand from a CW. Fury can and would get dropped, you're silly.

Usyk? The **** is Usyk going to do but box Marciano? If you didn't learn boxing him is not the answer you didn't study his career. Marciano comes closest to losing when he's being bullied. Usyk can even think about bullying Marciano. That's hilarious.

[Marchegiano]

Have you even seen any of those guys fight?

I don't know how I could make that post, or agree with it, and still maintain any sense of self-respect.

Not that it's the first comparison I'd make, but if anything Foreman and Marciano have the more similar style/approach.

All three are power punchers but there's a direct relationship between the accuracy and amount of power in each individual punch, and the volume of punches thrown.


And since ypu guys don't mind comparing fighters of insane size disparity, let me flesh things out further:

Compare Pryor and Harada to said individuals.

I used to have an animated gif as my sig comparing Foreman to Wilder because someone else told me they're very different. If I can find it I'll put it back.


Have you ever heard of big man game? I honestly don't know if it's just a local colloquial or if it's a standard label used through the industry.

basically, take up a dangerous position while offering a dangerous posture to entice the opponent to you instead of you chasing them and the sort of skillset you'd build around that central theory.

Rocky Marciano brings no one to him, he goes to them. Foreman does bring people to him, so does Wilder.

Marciano compares to Wilder in the baiting tradition. Wilder's whole spiel recently was he only has to be perfect for an instance, what is the Suzie Q but perfect for an instance?


I dunno where you learned boxing. Seems like you just watched some and made some **** up based on your feelings. There doesn't ever seem to be any academia to your posts. Just a lot of opinion.

[Rusty Tromboni]

In what way was Marciano a "near perfect boxer"? Nearly every boxing historian or trainer/coach will give you a top to bottom breakdown as to why he was nothing of the sort.

Am I crazy to believe that these crazy posters are all one or two dudes with multiple Alts trying to drive us crazy?

It almost seems too odd to be real.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Marciano's phantom overhead right ends Fury, period. Fury has never done anything to show he can handle it and has been KD by a simple looping overhand from a CW. Fury can and would get dropped, you're silly.

Usyk? The **** is Usyk going to do but box Marciano? If you didn't learn boxing him is not the answer you didn't study his career. Marciano comes closest to losing when he's being bullied. Usyk can even think about bullying Marciano. That's hilarious.

You're right Marciano has his way with both of them.

But that's only assuming he hasn't met with Jimmy Wilde first. After Wilde, all that would be left of Marciano are his bootstraps.


He has a better chance in a rematch with that plane crash than he does with the Welshman's fists of steel.

[Anthony342]

I used to have an animated gif as my sig comparing Foreman to Wilder because someone else told me they're very different. If I can find it I'll put it back.


Have you ever heard of big man game? I honestly don't know if it's just a local colloquial or if it's a standard label used through the industry.

basically, take up a dangerous position while offering a dangerous posture to entice the opponent to you instead of you chasing them and the sort of skillset you'd build around that central theory.

Rocky Marciano brings no one to him, he goes to them. Foreman does bring people to him, so does Wilder.

Marciano compares to Wilder in the baiting tradition. Wilder's whole spiel recently was he only has to be perfect for an instance, what is the Suzie Q but perfect for an instance?


I dunno where you learned boxing. Seems like you just watched some and made some **** up based on your feelings. There doesn't ever seem to be any academia to your posts. Just a lot of opinion.

I guess he'd be a good pick for the disappointment hall of fame then.

[billeau2]

In what way was Marciano a "near perfect boxer"? Nearly every boxing historian or trainer/coach will give you a top to bottom breakdown as to why he was nothing of the sort.

Its actually a very interesting question and the answer tells us that as human beings, we can alter our genetic destiny is ways that are hard to conceive.

In the wild, the SilverBack who is the biggest, meanest, smartest and youngest wins... When we look at hitting a baseball, a golf ball, its hard to imagine what we can do with a klutz.

With Marciano when we think of his training its helpful to envision a custom suit tailored perfectly, for a very imperfect body. A tailor who covers up all imperfections of a fat, droopy sort...with a suit that makes the person look like a model.

When Goldman worked the concepts with Marciano, he did not focus on making Marciano good in any conventional sense. Looping shots, statico footwork, broken rhythm... etc etc. But what he did was hermetically seal off a system that was designed around the fighter. Marciano had an answer for every contingency within that system, even if it violated boxing principles far and wide.

Perfect examples: Archie Moore could slip a punch with his shoulders and do so beautifully. marciano would hop off line and crash in to slip a shot. Marciano would always wind up coming in on the person, and doing so in such a way he was not a stationary target.

When Louis set out a distance, he would catch you straight as an arrow...Liston? very straight as well, and both men would automatically have another punch coming... While most fighters cannot naturally throw such combos, the technique when plied was perfection, and both men finished well because of it.

Marciano would step off line as he was coming in and loop around with his punches. His outside foot was usually off the fighting line, and if not his head and shoulders most certainly were. this allowed him to walk forwards, to the side of the opponent, (where he could not punch straight back) but made a looping shot right on target. And if the first one was too slow, they could keep coming because Marciano was off to the side out of the wheel house of the opponent.

One more: Short arms? very hard to tie up... Marciano could punch easily from a distance when most fighters would have their arms smothered. Like Armstrong, another short built guy, Marciano could loop over punches while his head was on the shoulder side of his opponent. Most fighters in close like that are trained to avoid the uppercut, or the body shot, not a looping shot at a 45 degree angle across the body.

[GhostofDempsey]

Its actually a very interesting question and the answer tells us that as human beings, we can alter our genetic destiny is ways that are hard to conceive.

In the wild, the SilverBack who is the biggest, meanest, smartest and youngest wins... When we look at hitting a baseball, a golf ball, its hard to imagine what we can do with a klutz.

With Marciano when we think of his training its helpful to envision a custom suit tailored perfectly, for a very imperfect body. A tailor who covers up all imperfections of a fat, droopy sort...with a suit that makes the person look like a model.

When Goldman worked the concepts with Marciano, he did not focus on making Marciano good in any conventional sense. Looping shots, statico footwork, broken rhythm... etc etc. But what he did was hermetically seal off a system that was designed around the fighter. Marciano had an answer for every contingency within that system, even if it violated boxing principles far and wide.

Perfect examples: Archie Moore could slip a punch with his shoulders and do so beautifully. marciano would hop off line and crash in to slip a shot. Marciano would always wind up coming in on the person, and doing so in such a way he was not a stationary target.

When Louis set out a distance, he would catch you straight as an arrow...Liston? very straight as well, and both men would automatically have another punch coming... While most fighters cannot naturally throw such combos, the technique when plied was perfection, and both men finished well because of it.

Marciano would step off line as he was coming in and loop around with his punches. His outside foot was usually off the fighting line, and if not his head and shoulders most certainly were. this allowed him to walk forwards, to the side of the opponent, (where he could not punch straight back) but made a looping shot right on target. And if the first one was too slow, they could keep coming because Marciano was off to the side out of the wheel house of the opponent.

One more: Short arms? very hard to tie up... Marciano could punch easily from a distance when most fighters would have their arms smothered. Like Armstrong, another short built guy, Marciano could loop over punches while his head was on the shoulder side of his opponent. Most fighters in close like that are trained to avoid the uppercut, or the body shot, not a looping shot at a 45 degree angle across the body.

Marciano was one of the most durable HW's ever, but certainly not a "near perfect boxer" as we know it. He was a baseball player, a great athlete, and was the epitome of doing more with less. An over-achiever who had the heart, grit, and physical strength to overcome his shortcomings.

But Rock took too many punches, his punches were loopy, wide and crude, but he threw them from a very low center of gravity and got a lot of leverage on his punches. He put every ounce of his 185 pounds into a right hand. He could roll and catch punches, but also took a lot of of punches a "near perfect boxer" would have slipped and countered.

No disrespect to Marciano, like I said, he did more with less and fought whoever they put in front of him, but he was a brawler, a puncher...not a nuanced boxer. I think that is what makes him exceptional, he defeated some very good to great boxers in Charles and Walcott. I personally think Charles would have beaten him in that first fight had he not lost his killer instincts after killing a man in the ring. Rock's nose was hanging off of his face, it really should have been stopped.