The Truth Finally Revealed: Wills ducked Dempsey!

[billeau2]

- -Wow, U got U proof outta CrakkerJakks box.

Hoo knew?

QueenB!!

[billeau2]

OK so now you have to stop saying Dempsey ducked Wills, obviously he didn't, Kearns signed. LOL Must have been your guy that got cold feet, must have been your guy who backed out scared.

I am going to put aside the BS and try and speak straight to you, but my gut feeling is it's not going to matter.

Kearns never intended to fight anyone in New York with any connection to Tex Rickard. You have to start from that premise before trying to figure out what Kearns was up to, and before you blame Dempsey of anything.

Wills was connected to New York and Rickard. Kearns was never going to fight him. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH KEARNS BEING SCARED OF WILLS.

Neither the failed negotiation I posted or the signed agreement you posted meant anything. Kearns set up that ruse because that was the period when the NYSAC was threatening to strip Dempsey's title if he didn't fight Wills.

The agreement was a stall until the date to strip passed, and until Kearns could find his fight far away from New York, with a fighter disconnected from Rickard. (Shelby/Gibbons).

Kearns used both Wills and Greb to stall New York and squeeze Rickard out.

Dempsey never ducked Wills, Wills never ducked Dempsey. Those two men would have fought in an alleyway if the opportunity presented itself. They were both fighters.

It was the people (with interests) and the (racist) world swirling around them that made it not happen. Notice that the agreement came to nothing anyway.

Funny thing is, that probably the only promoter who could have promoted that fight was Rickard, and he was scared of it, and Kearns was scared of Rickard.

Read the articles for the entire 1922 season and it is easy to see just how hard Kearns was trying to run away from NY and Rickard, and it is also easy to see just how controlled Mullins was by Tammany and the NYSAC.

Everyone, except maybe Dempsey and Wills, was dirty here, but I am starting to believe you really are a 'white fighter' hater and just don't want to see that.

You understand why that upset T so much? It was uncalled for. Its just being passionate about arguing a point. Its upsetting to someone who is not a racist to be called a racist.

[Willie Pep 229]

[/B]

You understand why that upset T so much? It was uncalled for. Its just being passionate about arguing a point. Its upsetting to someone who is not a racist to be called a racist.

Yes wrong words used on my end.

I don't think I called him a racist; but it looks to many that I did.

I still feel what I said is true in its limited definition of being a 'white fighter hater.' That was not meant to say he was a was a racist, it was to say that I believe he has a deep prejudice against white fighters from that era. (Not towards all white people; hell I have no clue what race T even is, but now I think I got it figured out.)

He is one of those fans that has turned the Holy Three (McVea, Langford, Jeannette) into lesser gods. I have know several white guys who have done that and they are no less annoying than T.

There is a constant, relentless argument that comes from him that all white fighters of that era were second rate to the black fighters and all the white fighters of that period were duckers.

BTW I never used the word racist;

But by the time he got done replying it was the only word on the table.

I am not trying to play semantics with you, but I did literally mean he was being a 'hater' only towards white fighters of that day.

I don't feel in my gut that I want to retract that statement.

Sorry.

But definitely recognize that I used the wrong words at my end.

[ShoulderRoll]

I am a big Jack Dempsey fan and from the film I've seen I think Harry Wills was one-dimensional and limited.

But travestyny has done an excellent job of backing up his arguments with facts and sources.

[travestyny]

Yes wrong words used on my end.

I don't think I called him a racist; but it looks to many that I did.

I still feel what I said is true in its limited definition of being a 'white fighter hater.' That was not meant to say he was a was a racist, it was to say that I believe he has a deep prejudice against white fighters from that era. (Not towards all white people; hell I have no clue what race T even is, but now I think I got it figured out.)

He is one of those fans that has turned the Holy Three (McVea, Langford, Jeannette) into lesser gods. I have know several white guys who have done that and they are no less annoying than T.

There is a constant, relentless argument that comes from him that all white fighters of that era were second rate to the black fighters and all the white fighters of that period were duckers.

BTW I never used the word racist;

But by the time he got done replying it was the only word on the table.

I am not trying to play semantics with you, but I did literally mean he was being a 'hater' only towards white fighters of that day.

I don't feel in my gut that I want to retract that statement.

Sorry.

But definitely recognize that I used the wrong words at my end.

You're a certified piece of shlt.


Where did I make any boxer out to be a lesser God, and please show me the "relentless argument that all white fighters were second rate to black fighters."

If it's "relentless," then you have the proof. Post it up. I'm calling you out yet again.


The fact of the matter is that you can't handle the truth!!!! You'd rather try to claim I'm a racist than accept the facts of what happened here. You'd also rather try to lie about Harry Wills instead of accepting the truth. You fvvcking dirtbag.

I'm not in the business of sugar coating the truth to comfort a grown man because he can't handle that his hero ducked a fighter. Stop being such a bltch and come back to reality.

But yea, I'll be waiting for you to expose my relentless posts that all white fighters are lesser than black fighters. Step up and show the proof or admit that you're a butthurt piece of shlt that will say anything to avoid the truth because it doesn't fit your agenda. I'll be waiting.



I'm such a white fighter hater but I entered a Harry Greb thread to read about Harry Greb. Makes perfect sense.

[travestyny]

I am a big Jack Dempsey fan and from the film I've seen I think Harry Wills was one-dimensional and limited.

But travestyny has done an excellent job of backing up his arguments with facts and sources.

Much appreciated, brotha

[Rusty Tromboni]

[/B]

You understand why that upset T so much? It was uncalled for. Its just being passionate about arguing a point. Its upsetting to someone who is not a racist to be called a racist.

You're the only one who os attempting to take the knock-off version of Maxine Walters seriously.

[billeau2]

Yes wrong words used on my end.

I don't think I called him a racist; but it looks to many that I did.

I still feel what I said is true in its limited definition of being a 'white fighter hater.' That was not meant to say he was a was a racist, it was to say that I believe he has a deep prejudice against white fighters from that era. (Not towards all white people; hell I have no clue what race T even is, but now I think I got it figured out.)

He is one of those fans that has turned the Holy Three (McVea, Langford, Jeannette) into lesser gods. I have know several white guys who have done that and they are no less annoying than T.

There is a constant, relentless argument that comes from him that all white fighters of that era were second rate to the black fighters and all the white fighters of that period were duckers.

BTW I never used the word racist;

But by the time he got done replying it was the only word on the table.

I am not trying to play semantics with you, but I did literally mean he was being a 'hater' only towards white fighters of that day.

I don't feel in my gut that I want to retract that statement.

Sorry.

But definitely recognize that I used the wrong words at my end.

You know some years back on the Bullshido site where I used to post a lot...I actually knew Ibad on that site...I was being tongue in cheek and wound up insulting this guy. He was a pipsqueak... And frankly I have a very self referential set of cues regarding being "afraid" of anybody. The thing is, I did not mean to insult him...So I apologized. He turned out to be a nice kid, a bit of a meglo, like a lot of martial arts people can be...

The point is not what word you used Pep. You insulted someone who you did not mean to do so. Isn't that enough? Unless you intended to call T a racist.

The concept of having a dislike for white, or mexican, or black fighters is way too self referential to claim someone is a racist. I mean for example? I happen to not care so much for the Mexican style of boxing, as compared to the Cuban style... It has nothng to do with Mexican or Cuban people. I think on this site, and this is wholly an opinion... we should allow people to have prejudices regarding the fighters they choose to like and not make assumptions. Yes yes yes, there are racists who use that...Freedom once sent me a castigating email because I was critical of Joe Calzaghe... He was livid (that should be a clue) that me as a white man would not support a fellow white fighter.

I can tell you that to me? that was certainly one of the most racist acts I ever encountered here... I know it exists... But usually our fighter impressions are colored by a lot of things, I think most people deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding the fighters we support...Look boxing is about your people rising from the ashes of the furnace right? I look at my late Dad, a *** who fought in the Marines...he was by his own admission not very good, lol...but I then see the many ***s who were picked on in their hoods in my dad's time by the very tough Italian and Irish kids, and I see the long line of ***ish fighters who used their noodle in the ring... Guys like chyrsantium joe, Mendoza, Maxie Rosenbloom, etc etc... And its a nice little way of having a connection to the next generation of ***ish fighters, including my dear brother in law who is a doctor on the front lines in NYC....has to wave to his family from the street, and live away from them so he can tend to the sick...

Your a good guy here, and you see my point. Not saying this means you should do anything necessarily, but you understand my perspective on these types of things that occur here at times.

[billeau2]

I am a big Jack Dempsey fan and from the film I've seen I think Harry Wills was one-dimensional and limited.

But travestyny has done an excellent job of backing up his arguments with facts and sources.

because of T and looking at these issues with proof and logic while I don't know all the details about why the fight was not done, I actually think Ghost gave a great account of this in one of his posts... T has shown that

1) the contract was broken.
2) Made the point that Wills fought better competition than Dempsey.

[billeau2]

You're the only one who os attempting to take the knock-off version of Maxine Walters seriously.

The difference between you and I Rusty: One of my martial arts teachers who passed recently taught in inner city Philly most of his adult life. He had no tolerance for anyone questioning his inner city credentials...He was white, short and looked a bit like the guy you would want to pick a fight with in the bar...God help anyone who did with Sensei though!! But Sensei liked to use the N word. He felt like he had a right to do so? All his students understood it, it never really caused a problem. he grew up in a rural area and was a Marine...and this was just his demand.

I see you as being of that mindset. Its not a compliment, or a critiscism. Its the way you have about approaching the subject and making statements about fighters and their proclivity. I do not pretend to know if you are, or are not a racist, it is none of my business frankly unless you have power and dominion over others that could affect them. **** Gregory said this better than I ever could: "The real racist is not the guy struggling alongside you, he has no power to cause any changes to you! The real racist is the man that can make decisions affecting you!" I can abide by that definition for many purposes (not all).

Or Gorgeous Dre who is a brilliant activist. He talks about killing those in inner city areas that are more accesible to you... While the real enemy who wants to control you, it never occures that this enemy even exists...So you shoot the guy in a similar area, that wears a different set of colors...

Now myself? I grew up in an urban neighborhood and being called a racist to me is deeply offensive. It angers me because I cannot conceive of how I could be a racist... Not saying I could not be, don't misunderstand me... But seeing that all people have the same problems, having friends who were mostly Black and brown lol, being seen as a racist undermines my whole self identity in a sense.

I don't know exactly how T was raised and its none of my business but I can empathise exactly why it is so insulting to be called a racist. And I can assume that some of the same factors that make it so insulting to me, might well make it insulting to him...