Roberto Duran vs. Henry Armstrong

[Rusty Tromboni]

I call this one so close because I feel lightweight was Henry’s best weight, where welter was Duran’s. North of 135 I call it a victory for Duran by a long margin. At LW Duran lost to DeJesus who was able to land his left hook at will. DeJesus, who was not as good as Armstrong, didn’t slip, bob and weave like Henry, he was easier to hit clean.

1) Nice point about DeJesus, but Duran was always in full control in the fights that mattered. He lost the first fight because he didn't take DeJesus seriously. But he absolutely clowned him in subsequent matches.

Duran would often let opponents get away with things because he could. It also kept them from shelling up. He needed to entice the to open up.

2) I too consider Armstrong, effectively speaking, a Lightweight. But his best work clearly happened north of 135. Not to mention, at the time, 133 lbs. was the Lightweight limit. He was kinda splitting the difference.

I really wouldn't try to make the argument that Duran and Armstrong were that much different in size. And it's not really the determining factor in this fight. Style-wise, Duran is all wrong for Armstrong.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Stonehands brutally KOed Dejesus twice!

What grade U in next year?

that's unnecessary.

[GhostofDempsey]

- -Stonehands brutally KOed Dejesus twice!

What grade U in next year?

He lost to DeJesus in their first fight. Go back to night school and finish that GED.

[billeau2]

I really don't see what point you are trying to make.

The answer is obvious, Duran was better and bigger than both men.

A little thing such as the weight both guys fight at can make a big difference. That is the point.

[QueensburyRules]

He lost to DeJesus in their first fight. Go back to night school and finish that GED.

- -Duh!

Henry KOed his first fight, but Duran avenged his sole political loss with savage beatdown KOs.

Lose the Dempsey moniker. Jack could never suffer the disgrace U endure daily.

[Rusty Tromboni]

A little thing such as the weight both guys fight at can make a big difference. That is the point.

I am still unsure what you are trying to say.


After Robinson (who never took it out of 2nd gear, to save Hank the embarrassment of an actual beatdown), Zivic was Armstrong's best opponent.

Hank and Zivic were 4 pounds apart. Armstrong was at his zenith, coming off his career best win. (Bombing out the very lethal Lew Jenkins).

What's more incredible to me is that Duran was only 21 years old with 28-0 (24 KOs) when he STOPPED Buchanan to win the championship.

I really doubt the extra weight and experience would do any favors for Hank. Even then Duran was too much for him.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Duh!

Henry KOed his first fight, but Duran avenged his sole political loss with savage beatdown KOs.

Lose the Dempsey moniker. Jack could never suffer the disgrace U endure daily.

You do realize he's one of the few informed and intelligent posters we have here. Maybe you disagree with him, but he's not one of the Bozos who needs to be shewed away.

That fight was definitely a foreshadowing of Duran's penchant for letting himself go after big wins, and failing to take opponents seriously.

The best Duan beats Armstrong, but I wouldn't be surprised - if they were contemporaries - if Armstrong held wins over Duran, simply because Duran was so unprofessional. Leonard beat Duran, afterall.

[billeau2]

I am still unsure what you are trying to say.


After Robinson (who never took it out of 2nd gear, to save Hank the embarrassment of an actual beatdown), Zivic was Armstrong's best opponent.

Hank and Zivic were 4 pounds apart. Armstrong was at his zenith, coming off his career best win. (Bombing out the very lethal Lew Jenkins).

What's more incredible to me is that Duran was only 21 years old with 28-0 (24 KOs) when he STOPPED Buchanan to win the championship.

I really doubt the extra weight and experience would do any favors for Hank. Even then Duran was too much for him.

I don't know what I said to confuse... I don't edit posts because the joy i get out of posting is to keep my chops sharp replying off the cuff. It is a way for me to get some writing in without a lot of time and after thought to the form, and to enjoy the content.

Its not important... the thing is I am not saying extra weight is helpful to Hank. I think he fights better at lightweight that any other division.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I don't know what I said to confuse... I don't edit posts because the joy i get out of posting is to keep my chops sharp replying off the cuff. It is a way for me to get some writing in without a lot of time and after thought to the form, and to enjoy the content.

Its not important... the thing is I am not saying extra weight is helpful to Hank. I think he fights better at lightweight that any other division.

Based on what?

As I've shown, his best work happened above 133 lbs.

But if you consider Lightweight his best, then you must realize he reached his ceiling against Lou Ambers.

Ambers was a terrific fighter. Sadly forgotten and criminally underrated. But if Lou Ambers is where you cap out, you're in for a nightmare against Duran. Good luck hearing the final bell.

[billeau2]

Based on what?

As I've shown, his best work happened above 133 lbs.

But if you consider Lightweight his best, then you must realize he reached his ceiling against Lou Ambers.

Ambers was a terrific fighter. Sadly forgotten and criminally underrated. But if Lou Ambers is where you cap out, you're in for a nightmare against Duran. Good luck hearing the final bell.

The level of competition is only one indicator. It is a good one for sure, but only one. we also have to look at the qualities of a fighter and how they translate. What jumps out at me is when I look at rare qualities compared to different weight classes.

Try to name power punchers at lightweight. Try to find lightweight fighters who could be a threat to ko another great fighter, and not by attrition. Now try to imagine which fighters you come up with could ko Armstrong as a lightweight. Try to figure out who on that list could outwork Armstrong.

To beat Armstrong at 135 you have to be able to keep him off you, your punch has to affect him. i don't see a guy at that weight capable of doing so. Welter is different because more weight, more benefit to the puncher. but at 135? My freakin wife, who has her figure, is not heavy, is practically 135!

Let me take it a step farther. Take an athlete with more muscle relative to his frame. i mean if I am bigger shouldn't my muscles allow me to run as well as a marathon runner who has the same amount of muscle per his frame? It does not work that way does it? At lower weights power translates differently. Because of his style Armstrong would have to lose by being outpointed. Nobody gonna do that either that I can see.