Roberto Duran vs. Henry Armstrong

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Luv Hank as a fighter and person, but must be 100 welts and 100 Lights who could beat him one on one.

Best stick to feather for this one.

Featherweight was his worst weight.

Archie Moore was a better Middleweight than Armstrong was a Featherweight.

He's the same size as Duran, but Hank is custom-made for the GOAT

[Rusty Tromboni]

Damn!!!!!!!! Ron Ron Ron.... Just breezing through here and you drop this megabomb down here!!!!! Wow...

can Duran fight in spurts against Homicide Hank? Can he pick his spots? If any boxer puncher could at that weight Duran would be on the short list. Both men are mentally tough and at a weight where their power and speed is magnified. I say this because even though they may have more power coming up, the chins they are hitting are lighter.

Armstrong fought like the Mongolian Hordes fought...Allegedly the Mongols would have a division sweep, and never relenting, and when the horses were tired, they would let them rest as the next division swept in, etc etc rinse repeat... the effect being that the foe never had a chance to set up.

Armstrong would make his opponents manvuveur into bad positions and try to readjust, all the while hitting them with openings made by moving his head and shoulders into them. You could not keep him off of you.

Duran was truly a boxer puncher and a puncher... His firepower would be there, but he would have to find a way to set and use his attacks. Armstrong of course had a beard for the ages... Duran as well... But in this case? it benefitts Armstrong, given his style more, because he could whether Duran's power.

I honestly do not know of a boxer puncher at lightweight who could beat Hank... The Japanese beat the Mongols with a little help from the ocean. It allowed them to set up and to go out to the shore and rush before the hordes and the Bowmen could set up and stop them. But the ocean caused a lot of the problem for the Mongols...

What ocean could help Duran? Well, Ray Robinson could fight going backwards... that could help one with Hank. The problem with trying to outmanuveur Hank is that he had you on tactile alert. He didn't need to see you, he could feel where your body was going and anticipate your actions. If his shoulder was not on you, he was on top of you hitting away...

Love Duran just don't know how he could get past Hank at this weight.

I love your posts. I really do. They're almost overwhelming, they're so rich with knowledge and insight. It's like an open-bar at a wedding. It's not that the bar will run out, but that the guests will have too much.

Unfortunately, for all that beautiful writing, I have to ask one painful, pointed question:

What could Fritzie Zivic do that Duran couldn't?

[Rusty Tromboni]

U have Alzheimers?

Lomachenko couldn't beat Salido but he's going to beat Henry Armstrong?

You're the Poster Child for Planned Parenthood. People say saline baths are a terrible thing. But you should have been THAT foetus.

You're right, Salido and Armstrong both relied on fouling and beating up on smaller fighters. Too bad for Armstrong, he has to go 15 rounds with Loma, no 12rth round bell is gonna save his punk ass.

If you understood Boxing, I'drefer you to the footage: loma's footwork and angles absolutely befuddle the painfully predictable Armstrong.

Seriously,the bi,tch needed to fight Pettey Fookin Sarron and the ghost of Barney Ross to win his championships - after over a decade in the ring. Couldn't even beat Baby Arizmendi.

But your clown ass will compare him to Lomachenko.

Are you this much of a waste in real life? Can you actually validate your existence? What's your life-goal, leeching off tax-payers' money? I get it, you're not really here to discuss Boxing, you're just trying to catch a peak at half-naked sweaty men with bulging muscles. But that's not what this place it for. Just end it already.

[TonyGe]

Duran. Too big, strong and smart. Great infighter. He would use Armstrong's aggression against him. Duran would most likely stop him after wearing him down.

[Rusty Tromboni]

That is a 50/50 fight all the way. Two titans of the division going head to head, neither one of them backing up. Duran had slightly better defense, which might give him an edge. But Henry would be in his chest all night, bobbing and weaving and not easy to hit clean. Tough one to call.

I used to feel that way.

When I first got into Boxing in earnest, about 20 years ago, the internet boards were full of campaigns calling Roy Jones and Henry Armstrong the best ever, right up there with Robinson.

I remember my grandfather saying Duran, not Charles or Wolgast, or Robinson, was the best he ever saw. But he also said things like: Joe Choynski would KO Muhammad Ali; and that Bob Fitzsimmons and Sullivan would KO Tyson; Bob Montgomery hit harder than Tendler and Williams (saw it with his own eyes); Eddie gregory (Mustafa Muhammad) was another Archie Moore. See how ridiculous even a firsthand account can be? People get old and pass on myths they heard, they also forget things they actually witnessed with their own eyes.

Watching actual footage has proven very enlightening and rewarding. We learn that some things that folks remembered was patently false, but other things were absolutely true.

Even Armstrong, falsely recounted his own exploits: he claimed to have carrier Ross in the final rounds of their fight. But the footage proves otherwise. Rather than taking his foot off the accelerator, he really turns it on at the end.

Duran's greatness is one of those things that holds up to the hype. He was much better than Arizmendi, Zivic, Angott, Joyce, and Jack. I'd bet you could bundle those guys up into a single fighter and still fall short of Duran.

Yes, at the thing they both do best: applying relentless pressure, Armstrong is probably the better. But forget about all the other stuff Duran does better (defense, power-punching, ring generalship), Armstrong pushes his advantage as a pressure fighter to a fault. He had no recourse against a guy like Zivic, who could match him for offense.

Those fights were about who wanted it more, and Armstrong came up short. He'd be SUICIDE Hank bringing that approach into the ring against Duran.

Really, Palomino, Leonard, Cuevas and Hagler - if not as great P4P - were all scarier opponents than Armstrong ever was. See how their ominous offense came as a deficit against Duran?

If you're a pressure fighter fighting Duran, you need to be the Harada or Lomachenko type. Walking into his uppercuts and falling victim to his rough-housing is the worst thing you can do.

It's not Marcel-Duran, but it's not close, either.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Duran. Too big, strong and smart. Great infighter. He would use Armstrong's aggression against him. Duran would most likely stop him after wearing him down.

You're growing on me.

[billeau2]

I love your posts. I really do. They're almost overwhelming, they're so rich with knowledge and insight. It's like an open-bar at a wedding. It's not that the bar will run out, but that the guests will have too much.

Unfortunately, for all that beautiful writing, I have to ask one painful, pointed question:

What could Fritzie Zivic do that Duran couldn't?

Didn't he fight Zivic as a welter? i am talking purely at light weight, not feather either... 135 light weight.

I don't want to split hairs but...when talking about two greats, the little things matter: Conn beat Louis in a 12 round fight... Tunney, a great heavy weight is a better light heavy, etc.

The little things matter and frankly at Welter I would give the fight another look and might give it to Duran because his punch would come more into play, less mobility because of the weight change, etc.

[GhostofDempsey]

I used to feel that way.

When I first got into Boxing in earnest, about 20 years ago, the internet boards were full of campaigns calling Roy Jones and Henry Armstrong the best ever, right up there with Robinson.

I remember my grandfather saying Duran, not Charles or Wolgast, or Robinson, was the best he ever saw. But he also said things like: Joe Choynski would KO Muhammad Ali; and that Bob Fitzsimmons and Sullivan would KO Tyson; Bob Montgomery hit harder than Tendler and Williams (saw it with his own eyes); Eddie gregory (Mustafa Muhammad) was another Archie Moore. See how ridiculous even a firsthand account can be? People get old and pass on myths they heard, they also forget things they actually witnessed with their own eyes.

Watching actual footage has proven very enlightening and rewarding. We learn that some things that folks remembered was patently false, but other things were absolutely true.

Even Armstrong, falsely recounted his own exploits: he claimed to have carrier Ross in the final rounds of their fight. But the footage proves otherwise. Rather than taking his foot off the accelerator, he really turns it on at the end.

Duran's greatness is one of those things that holds up to the hype. He was much better than Arizmendi, Zivic, Angott, Joyce, and Jack. I'd bet you could bundle those guys up into a single fighter and still fall short of Duran.

Yes, at the thing they both do best: applying relentless pressure, Armstrong is probably the better. But forget about all the other stuff Duran does better (defense, power-punching, ring generalship), Armstrong pushes his advantage as a pressure fighter to a fault. He had no recourse against a guy like Zivic, who could match him for offense.

Those fights were about who wanted it more, and Armstrong came up short. He'd be SUICIDE Hank bringing that approach into the ring against Duran.

Really, Palomino, Leonard, Cuevas and Hagler - if not as great P4P - were all scarier opponents than Armstrong ever was. See how their ominous offense came as a deficit against Duran?

If you're a pressure fighter fighting Duran, you need to be the Harada or Lomachenko type. Walking into his uppercuts and falling victim to his rough-housing is the worst thing you can do.

It's not Marcel-Duran, but it's not close, either.

I call this one so close because I feel lightweight was Henry’s best weight, where welter was Duran’s. North of 135 I call it a victory for Duran by a long margin. At LW Duran lost to DeJesus who was able to land his left hook at will. DeJesus, who was not as good as Armstrong, didn’t slip, bob and weave like Henry, he was easier to hit clean.

[QueensburyRules]

I call this one so close because I feel lightweight was Henry’s best weight, where welter was Duran’s. North of 135 I call it a victory for Duran by a long margin. At LW Duran lost to DeJesus who was able to land his left hook at will. DeJesus, who was not as good as Armstrong, didn’t slip, bob and weave like Henry, he was easier to hit clean.

- -Stonehands brutally KOed Dejesus twice!

What grade U in next year?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Didn't he fight Zivic as a welter? i am talking purely at light weight, not feather either... 135 light weight.

I don't want to split hairs but...when talking about two greats, the little things matter: Conn beat Louis in a 12 round fight... Tunney, a great heavy weight is a better light heavy, etc.

The little things matter and frankly at Welter I would give the fight another look and might give it to Duran because his punch would come more into play, less mobility because of the weight change, etc.

I really don't see what point you are trying to make.

The answer is obvious, Duran was better and bigger than both men.