Would Marciano be too small for today's heavyweight division ?

[JAB5239]

- - Had 5 more fights planned in the queue that he coulda slipped with HBO throwing the bank at the Vit/Lewie rematch. Lewie the Lion went out like Mary's Little Lamb and it prob cost him $20 mil.

Zero $ in a rematch with a Byrd runner/stinker. Was U a runner stinker too? Or just an addicted stinker inhaler?

So it's OK for a guy to quit and not try to rematch and get the title he lost back, but it's not OK for a guy to retire after ripping apart his opponents face and stopping him? Lmao, you have such convoluted logic.

And if there was zero money in it than why did Wlad fight him? Somehow I think the German fans would have paid a fortune for that rematch the way they were cheering for Byrd during and after he made Vits quit. Must have really gotten under his skin to have his adopted country cheering for an American he was supposed to just walk over.

[markusmod]

It would never happen. He'd duck me like Vits ducking a Byrd rematch.

Queen has a good left jab.

[QueensburyRules]

So it's OK for a guy to quit and not try to rematch and get the title he lost back, but it's not OK for a guy to retire after ripping apart his opponents face and stopping him? Lmao, you have such convoluted logic.

And if there was zero money in it than why did Wlad fight him? Somehow I think the German fans would have paid a fortune for that rematch the way they were cheering for Byrd during and after he made Vits quit. Must have really gotten under his skin to have his adopted country cheering for an American he was supposed to just walk over.

- - Nothing posed here is against the law but more representative of reputations. No surprise to see Germans cheering an American winning vs a Soviet Russian as the Ks were seen at the start of their careers before they became BANK in Germany in magnificent stadium fights.

If Lewie wants to cut short his career after Vit by sitting on the WBC for a year until he retires day before he was due to be stripped, hey, perfectly legal to be an A-H and hold the title hostage.

We all know Vit beat him out of his lucrative 5 fight tour he had remaining, and that too is perfectly legal.

Wlad was best positioned in their immediacy to fight for Byrd's WBO title as was explained umpteen time. Byrd made more money fighting in Germany than he did the US as did all the heavies the K's tapped to fight in Germany after they won the Germans over.

[JAB5239]

- - Nothing posed here is against the law but more representative of reputations. No surprise to see Germans cheering an American winning vs a Soviet Russian as the Ks were seen at the start of their careers before they became BANK in Germany in magnificent stadium fights.

If Lewie wants to cut short his career after Vit by sitting on the WBC for a year until he retires day before he was due to be stripped, hey, perfectly legal to be an A-H and hold the title hostage.

We all know Vit beat him out of his lucrative 5 fight tour he had remaining, and that too is perfectly legal.

Wlad was best positioned in their immediacy to fight for Byrd's WBO title as was explained umpteen time. Byrd made more money fighting in Germany than he did the US as did all the heavies the K's tapped to fight in Germany after they won the Germans over.

Thank you. The crux of our debate in this thread has been Vits not rematching Byrd. Did Vital's reputation not suffer from quitting against Byrd? If Lewis had come back from retirement and not rematched Vits I would agree with you on that. But he stayed retired, as he had talked about before even fighting Vitaly.Vits kept fighting though and never tried to rematch Chris, instead letting Wlad fight him, even though the opportunities were there as they were both closely ranked. So if it is representative of reputations, and even if I can never sway you on Lewis' retirement, shouldn't you be holding Vits to the same standard?

[QueensburyRules]

Thank you. The crux of our debate in this thread has been Vits not rematching Byrd. Did Vital's reputation not suffer from quitting against Byrd? If Lewis had come back from retirement and not rematched Vits I would agree with you on that. But he stayed retired, as he had talked about before even fighting Vitaly.Vits kept fighting though and never tried to rematch Chris, instead letting Wlad fight him, even though the opportunities were there as they were both closely ranked. So if it is representative of reputations, and even if I can never sway you on Lewis' retirement, shouldn't you be holding Vits to the same standard?

- - Trying simplify for the umpteeth time, Vit/Byrd had fine careers without the need of a rematch, a hollow insistence U stuck on.

[JAB5239]

- - Trying simplify for the umpteeth time, Vit/Byrd had fine careers without the need of a rematch, a hollow insistence U stuck on.

See, this makes NO sense. You say Lennox should have rematched even though he won, but Vits need not rematch Byrd even though he quit. If we're using your logic about reputations and such than you are showing a clear double standard as Vits rep suffered considerably until the Lewis fight. Lewis for his part did what few champions do. He beat every man he faced as a pro, and when he retired he stayed retired.

[Dr. Z]

So it's OK for a guy to quit and not try to rematch and get the title he lost back, but it's not OK for a guy to retire after ripping apart his opponents face and stopping him? Lmao, you have such convoluted logic.

And if there was zero money in it than why did Wlad fight him? Somehow I think the German fans would have paid a fortune for that rematch the way they were cheering for Byrd during and after he made Vits quit. Must have really gotten under his skin to have his adopted country cheering for an American he was supposed to just walk over.

A question for you? Who do your think wins the re-match and wasn't a torn shoulder not ring ability the primary reason for Byrd winning in the first place?

I look forward to your reply and the fact the Don King held a version of the world title which he matched his own signed contacted guys vs. each other IMO prevented the re-match.

[JAB5239]

A question for you? Who do your think wins the re-match and wasn't a torn shoulder not ring ability the primary reason for Byrd winning in the first place?

I look forward to your reply and the fact the Don King held a version of the world title which he matched his own signed contacted guys vs. each other IMO prevented the re-match.

It's irrelevant who would have won the rematch, but I would probably go with Vitaly. The fact is Byrd won the only fight they fought. As far as the shoulder injury goes, please pinpoint the time Vits stops using that arm. He was getting backed up and missed more punches than any fight before or after. That in itself should have made him seek a rematch. Saying the shoulder injury is the primary reason he lost is an opinion. They only way to prove that right would have been for them to fight again.

[Dr. Z]

It's irrelevant who would have won the rematch, but I would probably go with Vitaly. The fact is Byrd won the only fight they fought. As far as the shoulder injury goes, please pinpoint the time Vits stops using that arm. He was getting backed up and missed more punches than any fight before or after. That in itself should have made him seek a rematch. Saying the shoulder injury is the primary reason he lost is an opinion. They only way to prove that right would have been for them to fight again.

According to the HBO's initial broadcast, Vitali complained about the arm in German to his trainer Fritz Sdunek who spoke German as his native language. That his arm fist / arm was bothering him as early as round three. Exactly when the injury happened I can't pinpoint it. My guess is before he complained about it bothering him.

As I said before Don King, who controlled Byrd along with other fighters ( Golota, Ruiz, Holyfield, Oquendo and Rahman ) and went through an utterly forgetful " round robin " with each other ( good promoting if your own all 4 contacts and a belt ) which made a re-match difficult during that time. Remember those times? That is the fact. It was until Wlad offered a Byrd a ton of money for his belt that that he accepted and Byrd did this after Don King's game had played out.

Had Byrd offered a re-match with Vitail when he was playing games for years, Vitali surely would have accepted it. No offer was made. Like you said you would go with Vitali.

King help Lewis attain re-matches but did not for Vitali.

The re-match was needed as in the history of the division n one lost their title this way.

The judges were Genaro Rodriguez Dr Ruben M Garcia 89-82 Joachim Jacobsen 88-83 Melvina Lathan 88-83 all for Vitali.

If this were tennis Roger Feder losses on injury withdrawal after he was up 2 sets to none. That is how see the match. A loss with with a big asterisk next to it. Hall of fame members have quit with a lot less of an injury and sooner.

This should explain how I see it and why the re-match never happened.

[Ascended]

His size has nothing to do with it he never would make it based on way to outdated movements looks trash compared to 70s-90s let alone now