Were Patterson and Ingo the worst heavyweight champs ever ?

[john l]

Liston–Williams was an encounter we today would have called a ‘dream match-up’.
If I had been there, that April night in Miami, I had say after the opening round: Look, Cleveland is too experienced for Sonny, he’ll win this.

Nice! Im glad you posted that so that guy can see what a prime Liston looked like vs a BIG puncher/man in Williams. Good point about 1st rd also its been a while since I seen this fight.

[QueensburyRules]

Again you moron EVEN Jeffries said "he could never touch him on his best day". That's a quote st8 from him, but you know more about what its like to have fought Johnson then he does lmao. There is no thing called race huh?? I suppose to you that means there are no racists??? How fu@#ing dumb are you????????

- -There's you standing unwashed and ignorant.

I'm saying that science has ruled there is no scientific basis for race.

So race can now be defined as cultural perception, and pray tell us how many races are there in the world?

Jeff was quoted post fight in the midst of coast to coast riots that resulted in congressional banning of fight film that allowed JJ to claim he threw the Willard fight.

Fess up John, what's yer cultural race? We wanna know!

[john l]

- -There's you standing unwashed and ignorant.

I'm saying that science has ruled there is no scientific basis for race.

So race can now be defined as cultural perception, and pray tell us how many races are there in the world?

Jeff was quoted post fight in the midst of coast to coast riots that resulted in congressional banning of fight film that allowed JJ to claim he threw the Willard fight.

Fess up John, what's yer cultural race? We wanna know!

The fight with Willard was taped your getting all mixed up. And are you REALLY trying to tell me that Jeffries said that because he was worried about African Americans being lynched?????? Im a PROUD 2nd gen Irish American and "perception is reality"

[Rusty Tromboni]

Never said he was great by any means, just not the worst. I totally disagree about " De Preme" or Willard beating Patterson. Patterson was small and chinny, but he was fast and could box and even was a decent puncher. Also fought in the 56 Olympics and had a BIG heart(getting up from 7 KDs proves that). Would also rate him ahead of Marvin Hart and maybe even Sharkey. Just asking what makes you think the two you named could beat Patterson, not trying to crap on your opinion just curios.

LOL, Primo smacked dudes w/ elbows that Floyd never had to worry about.

I know this is a weird conversation. Heavyweight is a nebulous term. Floyd had waaaay more skill than Primo Carnera. But you really can't pick him to win that fight.

Do you even think he beats Earnie Shaaf?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Your either racist and dumb or just VERY dumb! Not quite sure yet. Jeffries even said after fight "I could have never touched him on my best day" But you know more about Johnson's skills then Jeffries lmao.

Have you never seen the footage of Johnson? He's dog s h i t. Even by the standards of the day he wan't anything special.

Seriously, he feasted on men half his size, or twice his age. And even then he relied heavily on clinching.

It's pathetic to watch. It's even more pathetic for people to repeat lies in 2019, when you have the internet at your disposal for fact-checking.

Next you'll be telling me Sun Tzu was a real person, he did your uncle's dry cleaning. Martin Luther King Jr. didn't plagerize. and Muhammd was real, too, he was marco polo's guide across the desert.

Any more myths you wish to perpetuate?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Nice! Im glad you posted that so that guy can see what a prime Liston looked like vs a BIG puncher/man in Williams. Good point about 1st rd also its been a while since I seen this fight.

LOL, Williams can't even control his own breathing let alone the distance and pace of the fight. He can't settle his feet underneath him, either.

Good on Liston, he holds tight and lets the big man tire himself out. But that was really the failure of Williams' corner not to get their fighter relaxed and under control. It's like they told him he could go out there and bomb the smaller man out. That's not a bad suggestion, but Liston probably had enough of a reputation that they should have suggested he feel things out first. Assert his advantages.

Really, it's a good fight. It shows Liston was more than just a bully, feasting on smaller men. But Williams' ability has been exaggerated over the years. He's more of a Bruno than a Wilder. Today you wouldn't expect that performance from an amateur.

[QueensburyRules]

The fight with Willard was taped your getting all mixed up. And are you REALLY trying to tell me that Jeffries said that because he was worried about African Americans being lynched?????? Im a PROUD 2nd gen Irish American and "perception is reality"

- -Mixed casualties son.

So, you thick as a Mick is it?

Bottomline is though JJ had worked up to contender status with Hart, their fight was so comically horrific that Jeff was right to have retired since he was a very big man hating to train himself down to a stick these many years.

JJ also dropped another regrettable fight to the novice Jeannette that year.

Had not Jack London issued the hue and cry for Jeff that ratcheted up the purses to record levels, he'd have never returned with 6 yrs blubber and rust.

[Dempsey19]

Willard was NEVER considered the hardest puncher of his time where did you get that? I guy did die in the ring with him, but that don't mean your a puncher sometimes it just happens. Also if you REALLY knew about that fight MOST at time thought the injury's came from his fight with Baer which took place shortly before. There is not ONE boxing expert that would put Sharkey ahead of Liston when he come to power(or anything). It seems your just reading Boxrec and don't really know the stories behind these guys. Im sorry but your just waaaaaay off on this.One last thing Liston was not fighting Lt Heavys or Cruiser's have you even seen the guys he fought before he won title like the very big and huge punching Clevland Williams. The Williams Ali KOed was old and just had a 357 bullet put in his back.

Yes, getting hammered by 179 pound Montell Griffin in 3 fights is really a testament to his punching power.

I do think he hit harder than Sharkey but both were capable of mowing Floyd down.

You’re getting confused between Carnera and Willard. Baer debuted long after Willard retired. Willard’s Jill was legitimate, he hit a man so hard that his jaw caved in to his brain and he died immediately, if that isn’t a feat of superhuman punching power I don’t know what is. Willard was unanimously considered the hardest puncher ever by period sources.

[Dempsey19]

Yes, Jeffries said Johnson would have always beaten him. But Johnson said a prime Jeffries would have been too much for him. Foreman said a Prime Frazier would have been too much for him. Sometimes people are just being polite do not read that much into it !

[ShoulderRoll]

Have you never seen the footage of Johnson? He's dog s h i t. Even by the standards of the day he wan't anything special.

Wow. Just wow.

More brilliancies from our resident Down's Syndrome kid.