Jack Dempsey vs Michael Spinks

[travestyny]

- -All we see outta you is a sissy wannabe boxing expert.

The only boxing experts are those that actually participate in the sport at a certain skill level.

That leaves you off the list as well.

You couldn't fight yer way out of a wet paper bag and and soil yer big boy trainers anytime Dempsey is mentioned.

Thanks for revealing that you have no comeback and your feelings got hurt

You would be pitied but for your suffocating stink.

Go cry into your pillow and then continue jerking to your Dempsey poster. It's not going to change the facts that you bowed down to, biotch

[billeau2]

Do they hand out awards here? This deserves an award!

I can agree, Jack was a stalker more than a guy who cut off the ring. He had great headmovement and fearsome active punching. That a lone got him into range. He was more of a stalker than a guy who cut off the ring. And the fact that he seemed to basically semi-retire between the Willard and Tunney fights meant some guys could hang with him longer than it seemed reasonable.

Since we brought up Spinks, how about Qawi's jab?

For me, Dempsey could have made tremendous bounds in his offense if he knew how to work behind a jab, like Qawi.

But against Spinks, he's good enough without it to eventually finish the fight.

True very true. The Bob and weave is a top heavy movement, and requires a lot of head movement but does not work from the perspective of cutting the ring off. It gets you in quick and lets you avoid incoming ith shoulder and head movement. It has also been pointed out that this is a style that takes a lot of energy. So Dempsey had lost a step or so.

A great jab, developing a jab has never hurt a fighter thats for sure! Qawi was tough and smart... He had a reputation in Philly as one of those fighters that is respected in house. One of my martial arts teachers knew him and his family.

[billeau2]

I agree, let's call it a "treatise." Sounds more respectable and groundbreaking than just a "book." And it's about punching with power.

It's a book. But it's a GOOD, smart book.

I think Dempsey knocked out a lot of tough hombres at the fairs and festivals. Using that awesome punching technique -- and his super hungry need to get a meal after going days without eating. I respect that. And when I look at those old pictures of the guy, he is indeed fearsome as hell.

But when it comes to the sport of boxing, I don't think he knocked out anybody really good, dig?

I get the emotion. You guys LOVE Jack Dempsey and it really gets under your skin to have somebody call him "overrated" and point out that he admitted he was "afraid" of Sam Langford.

But he avoided black fighters. Period. Maybe he was just being a man of his time. A white man. That's fine. But it doesn't really give me confidence he would do very well against the best heavyweight boxers who happen to be (all of them) black. I consider Marciano an exception, and I don't see any reason to suppose Dempsey would be able to defeat Ezzard Charles or Archie Moore. He never once faced anyone remotely similar to those fighters, except the guy he lost to. Twice.

(I know, I know. He should have got the KO in the rematch. Maybe. It actually seems Tunney was watching the count and -- like the intelligent, more modern fighter that he was, buying time to recuperate; but yes, Dempsey almost won.)

For the record, I do think a Spinks matchup is a good one.

I cant comment on his thoughts about the color line...Ill tell you my thoughts and these thought and subway fare will get you on the subway! haha. Dempsey was the first generation of the superstar athlete... Him and the Babe. But before that baseball, boxing... was considered low class endevours and indeed a lot of athletes at the time could easily have been homicidal maniacs...like Ty Cobb for example. What Pete Rose did to Ray Fosse? Cobb did every game! lol.

Anyway I digest...I mean digress! But the guys who controlled the fighters were smart, ruthless and had a lot of influence on the fighters. Guys like Rickert could tell Dempsey "You ain't gonna fight no coloreds cause if you do (fill in the disaster)" and Dempsey would listen. Most fighters listened because they did not think of themselves as capable... The Martin Eden effect, which was the semi autobiography of Jack London, who was brilliant, a racist and committed suicide because he realized he was always going to be seen as more of a strevedore than an intellectual.

The other thing that I disagree with is the hubbub about Harry Wills, the Black Panther! Decent fighter for sure, but nobody that would scare Dempsey. Wills was just not that good. I don't find it credible that Dempsey would avoid Wills. If you look at most of the hubbub it is not about Langford, who was indeed a banger and a half, but about avoiding Wills. See how a little particular can make a big difference in perception? For example, to be scared of a fighter like Langford...Black or White makes a certain amount of sense.

With that said, when we look at fighters, very few check all the boxes. Some fought great comp, some did not. Some got a way with this or that... Dempsey's competition may not have been steller compared to others, I accept that. I hold him in high regard more for his book and way with people. He was an incredible teacher really.

Tunney was a great fighter, I don't need to ponder about the count...It is academic who won. I believe that these matches between these two were an incredible watershed event for boxing...it was the old versus the new. And both men gave a great account of themselves and their style.

Regarding fighting guys like Moore and Charles. tough opponents for anyone, but most who saw the reign of Dempsey thought he was the best until Louis came along, where it was more divided, but Dempsey still usually won...and these were guys who saw both men fight. Again, hard to say who is right.

[QueensburyRules]

The only boxing experts are those that actually participate in the sport at a certain skill level.

That leaves you off the list as well.




Thanks for revealing that you have no comeback and your feelings got hurt



Go cry into your pillow and then continue jerking to your Dempsey poster. It's not going to change the facts that you bowed down to, biotch

- -Yo, Nancy, you da sissy that banned me from yer dump on Dempsey thread and then begged me to return to yer farce!

You can't fight and have no honor unlike Sam Langford and Harry Wills who operated at a rare higher order of being than yer ilk could ever conceive of much less aspire to.

No shame in that save yer demonstrable lowliness...stinker!!!

[billeau2]

Apparently Dempsey is a polarizing figure

Who would have known?

[billeau2]

- -Yo, Nancy, you da sissy that banned me from yer dump on Dempsey thread and then begged me to return to yer farce!

You can't fight and have no honor unlike Sam Langford and Harry Wills who operated at a rare higher order of being than yer ilk could ever conceive of much less aspire to.

No shame in that save yer demonstrable lowliness...stinker!!!

Queeny
Are you a scot? Where do you hail from?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Your childish insults reveal that you don't feel like you're doing too well in this convo.



So what you're saying is that Dempsey pretended to get his ribs broken?

And you have the nerve to question someone's intellect? lol



What the hell are you talking about? Your entire argument is that Jack Dempsey lied about having 3 of his ribs broken?

Dude. If that's all you have, go away.

The main point is that no, Dempsey was not out of the league of all black fighters up until Ali, or whatever was your ridiculous claim. Do you really need proof that others thought he lost to Johnson? Go to boxrec yourself and check it out. And if you want to talk elite and prime, all you have to go on is Dempsey backing away from these fighters. Doesn't leave you much to work with besides your own eye test. Too bad Dempsey didn't have the balls to back up your eye test by fighting one of these guys, with all due respect to him.




LMAO. Dude, you need some help. Cherry picking to try to fit your agenda isn't going to help you.

But if you want to play the cherry pick game, explain Dempsey's KO1 to Jim Flynn.

Sorry, but your "he looks better on tape to me" eye test isn't how this works. Dempsey backed down from Jeannette. He backed down from Wills. He outright stated that he was scared of Langford and refused a shot at him. These are all facts.

All that time typing words no one will ever read. And to think you could have made yourself relevant by simply posting links to fights that back up your lonesome claims.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I cant comment on his thoughts about the color line...Ill tell you my thoughts and these thought and subway fare will get you on the subway! haha. Dempsey was the first generation of the superstar athlete... Him and the Babe. But before that baseball, boxing... was considered low class endevours and indeed a lot of athletes at the time could easily have been homicidal maniacs...like Ty Cobb for example. What Pete Rose did to Ray Fosse? Cobb did every game! lol.

Anyway I digest...I mean digress! But the guys who controlled the fighters were smart, ruthless and had a lot of influence on the fighters. Guys like Rickert could tell Dempsey "You ain't gonna fight no coloreds cause if you do (fill in the disaster)" and Dempsey would listen. Most fighters listened because they did not think of themselves as capable... The Martin Eden effect, which was the semi autobiography of Jack London, who was brilliant, a racist and committed suicide because he realized he was always going to be seen as more of a strevedore than an intellectual.

The other thing that I disagree with is the hubbub about Harry Wills, the Black Panther! Decent fighter for sure, but nobody that would scare Dempsey. Wills was just not that good. I don't find it credible that Dempsey would avoid Wills. If you look at most of the hubbub it is not about Langford, who was indeed a banger and a half, but about avoiding Wills. See how a little particular can make a big difference in perception? For example, to be scared of a fighter like Langford...Black or White makes a certain amount of sense.

With that said, when we look at fighters, very few check all the boxes. Some fought great comp, some did not. Some got a way with this or that... Dempsey's competition may not have been steller compared to others, I accept that. I hold him in high regard more for his book and way with people. He was an incredible teacher really.

Tunney was a great fighter, I don't need to ponder about the count...It is academic who won. I believe that these matches between these two were an incredible watershed event for boxing...it was the old versus the new. And both men gave a great account of themselves and their style.

Regarding fighting guys like Moore and Charles. tough opponents for anyone, but most who saw the reign of Dempsey thought he was the best until Louis came along, where it was more divided, but Dempsey still usually won...and these were guys who saw both men fight. Again, hard to say who is right.

Sullivan was the first national sports hero... an international one, actually.

But as far as Louis and Dempsey: Louis was far more refined, but Dempsey was the greater natural talent.

[travestyny]

- -Yo, Nancy, you da sissy that banned me from yer dump on Dempsey thread and then begged me to return to yer farce!

Yo, Nancy, you da sissy that couldn't stay on topic because I was wrecking your dreams with facts.

And if you'd like to revisit those facts and get embarrassed here, I'm all for it. How about you start with admitting that Dempsey broke a valid contract to fight Wills.

Well, did he? I bet if you answer honestly you'll be crying for days


The fact that you call facts a farce reveals you're a lil puss.

You can't fight and have no honor unlike Sam Langford and Harry Wills who operated at a rare higher order of being than yer ilk could ever conceive of much less aspire to.

Oh, I'm sorry. I had no idea this was about how well I did as a boxer....because it's not.

Again, stop being so transparent. You have no comeback to the facts I've stated, and now you want to attack me. Sorry, it doesn't work on me, clown. I'm well aware that you can't challenge anything I've said and that it hurts your feelings.

No shame in that save yer demonstrable lowliness...stinker!!!

No shame in you having your feelings hurt by the truth...but you should keep that to yourself, don't you think. Or at least put a tampon in your mouth to stop bleeding your pvss all over the forums. Thanks, chump

[travestyny]

All that time typing words no one will ever read. And to think you could have made yourself relevant by simply posting links to fights that back up your lonesome claims.

We both know why you have gone from attempting to argue with me to pretending you won't read anything else


Oh, but a link to fights that back up my claims? Have at it.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Ja...Lester_Johnson


Dismissed, until you come back and let me know what you've learned, clown boy.