Jack Dempsey vs Michael Spinks

[Rusty Tromboni]

I always like to look for precedent. Is there a fight that could tell us something about Spinks and Dempsey? I would say "yes." Tunney and Dempsey was that fight. So what shakes out if we compare Spinks to Tunney?

First off, Tunney was versatile. could do almost anything in the ring, and could do it according to the old and new ways! Tunney could stalk and counter, trap you like he was taught by the likes of the bare knuckle gang, including Corbet... who never actually fought a bare knuckle match professionally but was trained in the ways of those fighters. Tunney could also square up. counter punch with weight set on the front.

Spinks was also a very versatile fighter who could punch, counter well, and be tactical minded. The one big difference is in the footwork. Tunney used a lot of angles, and distancing when he fought Jack, skills that Spinks did not have. Spinks was more basic and it showed against Tyson who was very similar to how Dempsey would operate considering that Tyson practiced Jack's techniques.

Spinks would get overwhelmed going straight in and back off of Jack. Tunney against Tyson would be interesting because Tyson would not be able to overwhelm Tunney for the same reason. Angles, angles and angles. Set ups and always moving in a manner where there is a space to react to a swarmer.

And regardless of what you think of Dempsey he did not "write a book," jim Braddock, for example "wrote a book'.... and it had a nice ending and it told of his struggles and how he dealt with adversity...and it was good, it made people smile.

Jack Dempsey produced a detailed analysis of the new modern style of boxing emphasizing punching. His technical analysis detailed how to use weight, how to shift the body and taught an assortment of punches. Dempsey's work might be the single best piece of work on the subject and if it is not, it is one of the best.

Let me put this in some perspective which is lacking for some: In 99% of the cases when a fighting man says "I will teach you a skill that will make you a stone cold killer" it is pure BS. It takes years to learn how to fight properly. Dempsey's book was designed so that anyone could learn how to hit things really hard and do so in a very short time. Following dempsey's extortations one could, in a day, learn how to punch someone hard enough to break things. it takes a lot of intelligence to write something that clear about a confusing subject.

Do they hand out awards here? This deserves an award!

I can agree, Jack was a stalker more than a guy who cut off the ring. He had great headmovement and fearsome active punching. That a lone got him into range. He was more of a stalker than a guy who cut off the ring. And the fact that he seemed to basically semi-retire between the Willard and Tunney fights meant some guys could hang with him longer than it seemed reasonable.

Since we brought up Spinks, how about Qawi's jab?

For me, Dempsey could have made tremendous bounds in his offense if he knew how to work behind a jab, like Qawi.

But against Spinks, he's good enough without it to eventually finish the fight.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Great fight, I think Dempsey would eventually get spinks out of there, but I can see spinks being very very dangerous

[The Old LefHook]

Dempsey's fall step jab would cave your face in, son.

[QueensburyRules]

What fraud would that be? I'm sure the dude that broke 3 of Dempsey's ribs had such a great life coming up Stop with the excuses.



How he left what part of the country? Tell us all about his opponent that crack his ribs up. The one who, according to boxrec was 11lbs lighter than Dempsey. What you got?

But hey, I'll tell you how he left that part of the country. With 3 broken ribs. He left and laid up to mend. Isn't that what happened?




It's never any good when it comes to you. Everyone knows you're a shlt poster.


Wahhhhh. Jackie Baby had it so hard.....but I'm sure it was all roses for the black dudes he was ducking/getting his ribs cracked by

- -The fraud was a typical sociopathic Yankee con man tricked Dempsey's mgr under the guise of a family emergency into returning to Utah, where upon Jack fought a couple of well fed locals sleeping at home while Jack slept on park benches and stood in soup lines, now with cracked ribs and not a penny in his pocket.

All documented.

We all see what u slingin', and were'd u learn that trick?

[travestyny]

Show me the proof it happened.


I can at least show you the proof the dudes you named were dog shyte. Seriously, were those guys even Boxers?

They look like the sort of dudes that get offered a couple hundred bucks to fight in a gym or the backroom of a bar. After they try to smack each other around, you turn one of the local kids on them. There's "punching" and ****** monkey rasslin. But they're clearly just dopes who resort to violence (often against smaller, weaker people) because they lack social skills. Then they get their asses kicked by someone who can really fight.

We've all suckered dudes like those clowns you named, there's no shame in saying you enjoy cheap entertainment. Besides when MMA wasn't really legal, it was hard for the young kids to find an outlet. Turning them lose on some hoods was just a way of keeping them fresh threw "safe" sparring. You couldn't wear them out against the same guys, and you couldn't let them show up to the cage "cold" and get hurt.

Funny stuff to set up when your young and single. But when you're an adult you really don't have time for that life. let alone pay for it. If those dudes need money that bad, they can find real jobs.


If showing you evidence that Willis and Co. were not in Jack's league is too painful. I can also show you louis getting smoked by the big Kraut; dropped by the sloppy H'Italian, and rattled by the Pittsburgh KID. I dunno if I can find footage of Liston getting his jaw shattered, but I can definitely dig up a fight he famously threw...

Your post makes no sense.

1. Do you really need proof that Dempsey had 3 of his ribs broken by a black fighter? Well, here it is in his own words:

Shortly before Dempsey won the World Heavyweight Championship in 1919, The Cedar Rapids Evening Gazette quoted him as saying the following about his fight with John Lester Johnson: "In the second round, Johnson pulled something on me I had never seen before. He just lifted my right arm up high and then soaked me in the ribs. He broke three of 'em for me. He hit me on the chin in that round, too, and I saw many a star. He knew too much for me. ... I thought he licked me. I didn't know how to fight then, and Johnson did. Yes, I think he won and he taught me more that night than I have ever dreamed of before."

2. So you can find examples of boxers losing? So what? I can find examples of Dempsey losing, too. I can also find examples of Dempsey ducking fighters, like when he ran out of the ring from Joe Jeannette in New York City, or how he broke a contract to fight Harry Wills. The reason the fights are fought is to see who is the better man. Dempsey didn't fight the fights.

And you claiming that the boxers I mentioned were shlt boxers that just needed a hobby or whatever you're trying to say above is ludicrous. These were world class boxers. Complete blasphemy! You should be ashamed of yourself.

[travestyny]

- -The fraud was a typical sociopathic Yankee con man tricked Dempsey's mgr under the guise of a family emergency into returning to Utah, where upon Jack fought a couple of well fed locals sleeping at home while Jack slept on park benches and stood in soup lines, now with cracked ribs and not a penny in his pocket.

All documented.

We all see what u slingin', and were'd u learn that trick?

Was there a point to this, or are you still making up excuses.


He was in New York and beat up two guys before he got to John Lester Johnson, whom he outweighed by 11lbs as I've already mentioned. If he didn't think he could win, he would have declined. Much like he declined to face Langford and Gunboat Smith. He took the fight against Johnson, he got 3 of his ribs cracked for his efforts, and he came away with a draw.

I'm sure John Lester Johnson rolled over in his silk pajamas in his bed of money at the Johnson mansion and just dusted off those old gloves to go bust up those ribs, huh?

He got his ribs busted, got a draw that he didn't think he deserved, and then declined to face a black boxer ever again. DOCUMENTED FACTS.

I see you learned the trick of making up excuses, much like so many of you do here when it comes to Dempsey. Pitiful.

[travestyny]

- -Jack was frozen out of boxing for 3 years for dropping Rickard and Kearns to try and make the Wills fight.

He took Bill Tate with him to Hollywood to get in regular sparring for that never to be bout.

5 defenses x 4 belts today = 20 defenses.

Without Jack, we'd never have the spectacle of big matches today...just sayin'...

Then why did he break a valid contract to fight Harry Wills if he wanted it so badly?

It was signed, sealed, and ready to be delivered until he had a change of heart. All on him. The courts found that HE broke a VALID contract. Hmm.


Any idea?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Your post makes no sense.

1. Do you really need proof that Dempsey had 3 of his ribs broken by a black fighter? Well, here it is in his own words:



2. So you can find examples of boxers losing? So what? I can find examples of Dempsey losing, too. I can also find examples of Dempsey ducking fighters, like when he ran out of the ring from Joe Jeannette in New York City, or how he broke a contract to fight Harry Wills. The reason the fights are fought is to see who is the better man. Dempsey didn't fight the fights.

And you claiming that the boxers I mentioned were shlt boxers that just needed a hobby or whatever you're trying to say above is ludicrous. These were world class boxers. Complete blasphemy! You should be ashamed of yourself.

Do you "huff"? You talk like somebody who's spent years huffing aerosol. That is why no one takes you seriously. As for me, I'm more forgiving: you're not bright, but at least it makes you entertaining.

Dempsey told a story. OK. Lots of fighters do that. It's pretty well known. Here's a free lesson for you, kid, "believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see".

If you want to argue Dempsey admitted someone was better than him, OK, there you have it. You didn't provide and source or a context. But I can throw you that bone. Now, again, PROVE it happened. Jack can say the fight took place on Mars... tens of millions of years ago, when it was inhabited by life. Just because you find a quote does that mean it happened?


Jack Dempsey on film looks better than anyone of those sloppy dopes. They were big. That's it. None proved better than Willard when he was on top. Enough so that Willard went 3 years w/o fighting. When he did return, we all saw what Dempsey did to him... better than anything Louis or Liston did to any out matched ogre they fought, none the less.

[travestyny]

Do you "huff"? You talk like somebody who's spent years huffing aerosol. That is why no one takes you seriously. As for me, I'm more forgiving: you're not bright, but at least it makes you entertaining.

Your childish insults reveal that you don't feel like you're doing too well in this convo.

Dempsey told a story. OK. Lots of fighters do that. It's pretty well known. Here's a free lesson for you, kid, "believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see".

So what you're saying is that Dempsey pretended to get his ribs broken?

And you have the nerve to question someone's intellect? lol

If you want to argue Dempsey admitted someone was better than him, OK, there you have it. You didn't provide and source or a context. But I can throw you that bone. Now, again, PROVE it happened. Jack can say the fight took place on Mars... tens of millions of years ago, when it was inhabited by life. Just because you find a quote does that mean it happened?

What the hell are you talking about? Your entire argument is that Jack Dempsey lied about having 3 of his ribs broken?

Dude. If that's all you have, go away.

The main point is that no, Dempsey was not out of the league of all black fighters up until Ali, or whatever was your ridiculous claim. Do you really need proof that others thought he lost to Johnson? Go to boxrec yourself and check it out. And if you want to talk elite and prime, all you have to go on is Dempsey backing away from these fighters. Doesn't leave you much to work with besides your own eye test. Too bad Dempsey didn't have the balls to back up your eye test by fighting one of these guys, with all due respect to him.

Jack Dempsey on film looks better than anyone of those sloppy dopes. They were big. That's it. None proved better than Willard when he was on top. Enough so that Willard went 3 years w/o fighting. When he did return, we all saw what Dempsey did to him... better than anything Louis or Liston did to any out matched ogre they fought, none the less.

LMAO. Dude, you need some help. Cherry picking to try to fit your agenda isn't going to help you.

But if you want to play the cherry pick game, explain Dempsey's KO1 to Jim Flynn.

Sorry, but your "he looks better on tape to me" eye test isn't how this works. Dempsey backed down from Jeannette. He backed down from Wills. He outright stated that he was scared of Langford and refused a shot at him. These are all facts.

[QueensburyRules]

I can find examples of Dempsey losing, too. I can also find examples of Dempsey ducking fighters, like when he ran out of the ring from Joe Jeannette in New York City, or how he broke a contract to fight Harry Wills. The reason the fights are fought is to see who is the better man. Dempsey didn't fight the fights.
.

- -All we see outta you is a sissy wannabe boxing expert.

You couldn't fight yer way out of a wet paper bag and and soil yer big boy trainers anytime Dempsey is mentioned.

You would be pitied but for your suffocating stink.