Roy Jones fights these 1930's heavies

[QueensburyRules]

- -I have a AMA record like Loma does in boxing, only in thumb 'rasslin.

A more manly sport.

[billeau2]

- -I have a AMA record like Loma does in boxing, only in thumb 'rasslin.

A more manly sport.

https://www.google.com/search?q=thum...h=500&dpr=1.25

[them_apples]

When we analyze Jones size there are two ways to make a conclusion. One way is to use a static indicator. So...we look at weight, we compare it, and affix it as though it indicates size, and many other variables...for example, punch resistance.

The other way to look at size as a factor is as an emerging, responsive category of understanding. We lose some of the precise points but..I believe we gain a lot more for the sacrifice.

According to this cybernetic system and flow Jone's weight is a fluid category which partially indicates relative punch resistance. We know that Jones did not have the punch resistance that other heavyweights in that era displayed...

What about advantages in the ring? We know that Jones had power, we know that he had speed... So nobody can say that fighters like Conn, Schmelling, or Braddock at a similar weight, had the speed and natural ability that Jones had in the ring.

This leaves us where we have to once again look at weight and size... In this instance as a fluid category... Guys like Braddock Conn and Schmelling were taught to come in light as possible, to be prepared to fight for 15 rounds. One can assume that they were approaching training to take the weight off as much as possible, and not to bulk upwards. JOnes on the other hand was trying to bulk upwards in his attempt to fight heavyweight.

Again...training weight, as a fluid, changing category, has a range... and when we look at JOnes and the three fighters I mention, all these men had a range of weights they carried: What they fought at, what they walked around at, etc. I believe that what we would find is that one of the biggest indicators here is that fighters in this time period, were trianing to come in light and able... Where as JOnes was attempting to add muscle to "bulk up" to be succeful.

On a range of values where we could look at these men side by side, we would find that Jones was in fact a smaller man. JOnes had very thin legs (for example) and not much width of shoulder. But to me one of the biggest indicators regarding training weight, acrtual size and strength, is the vantage point where one starts the training process. Cutting weight as opposed to gaining weight.

The concept of gaining weight to be a heavy seems very modern to me. And in the older epoches of boxing we often see men like Fitzimmons, who weighed all of 160 but had a shoulder, chest spread similar in all respects to Max Bauer. Notice that Fitzy;s weight is not an issue? It might have been depending, but he had the strength, reach and proportions in the upper body to fight as a heavyweight. Compare his build to Jones, who has sloping shoulders, smaller wrists, hands, arms...

Primates are very interesting creatures when it comes to strength and weight... A monkey has more strength than an adult male... Macquace male, that weighs about 40 pounds at most. But the weight is in the bones and sinews where the real strength generating takes place. While we can't analyze bone density for all the people we are comparing we can see from their build, their training routines and what they walked around at, how strong they were per their weight. And we would expect to find that a stronger man would hold more weight in his structure, because bond weights a lot more than muscle.

100 percent agree.

Jones is a smaller man who lifted to get heavier. He's never gonna be a heavyweight. his only advantage would be his speed. I think he get's caught though.

[Dempsey19]

The concept of gaining weight to be a heavy seems very modern to me. And in the older epoches of boxing we often see men like Fitzimmons, who weighed all of 160 but had a shoulder, chest spread similar in all respects to Max Bauer. Notice that Fitzy;s weight is not an issue? It might have been depending, but he had the strength, reach and proportions in the upper body to fight as a heavyweight. Compare his build to Jones, who has sloping shoulders, smaller wrists, hands, arms...

How do you think Fitz would do in today's heavyweight division ?

On the one hand, heavyweights nowadays weigh 220 but again so did Baer and so did Jeffries who went life and death with a shot Fitz.

[billeau2]

How do you think Fitz would do in today's weight division ?

On the one hand, heavyweights nowadays weigh 220 but again so did Baer and so did Jeffries who went life and death with a shot Fitz.

Thats a great question... I think he could find a way to compete. He would have to get better defensively.

[QueensburyRules]

How do you think Fitz would do in today's heavyweight division ?

On the one hand, heavyweights nowadays weigh 220 but again so did Baer and so did Jeffries who went life and death with a shot Fitz.

- -A rhetorical question deserves a rhetorical answer.

[Dempsey19]

- -A rhetorical question deserves a rhetorical answer.

Come now that is hardly rhetorical

[Rusty Tromboni]

I disagree about a punch by a 200 lb man is still a punch by a 200 lb man. In fact, a wirey 147 lb man might actually hit harder than a thick artificially built 200 lbder. Look at Pazienza at 160, couldn't bust a g****.

Jones would still be faster yes, because he is a naturally smaller man. his muscle would then betray him as the fight wore on, as would his chin. there is no way he couldn't finish any of those guys off - so we are talking 15 round fights, or even 12 rounds. All of them would get him.

And they were seriously crafty too, not pretty - but crafty. Look at Braddock, he tucks his chin and stares at your chest regardless if he's punching your head or body - poker face for 15 rounds. When he breaks out of a clinch he quickly loads up with a right hook at close range when most guys are sleeping and unprepared. I remember fullmer did this as well. It's not pretty but it hurts you.

Yeah, but I don't recall Paz having much of a punch at any weight. Conversely, guys like Arguello, Hearns, Canzoneri, Spinks, and Langford carried their power w/ them as they moved up in weight. A good puncher is a good puncher. Jones was a good/great puncher.

Do you watch MMA? Did you see Daniel Cormier KO Stipe Miocic? In MMA he's fought at 205. I don't recall him KO'ing anyone there. But when he moved to Hw he did what no one else could - he KO'd Stipe Miocic with one punch. He actually out-weighed Miocic in that fight.
This is a guy who had wrestler friends of mine in college. At 184!

I dunno if Cormier could still make 184. But I guarantee you he wouldn't KO Miocic at that weight.

It's simple physics.


With Jones, and many fighters today, they bulk up and then cut-down. So they enter the ring well above their contracted weight. And it definitely helps for fighing a more explosive, anaerobic fight.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I think you are underestimating Jones here tbh. He wasnt that small by the standards of the 30s, and we all know how great an athlete and boxer he was. Similar sized or even smaller fighters than Jones such as Loughran, Charles, Moore, Mickey Walker and Billy Conn stepped up to HW and had success in the 30s and 40s.

I think that Jones is more than capable of being a top top HW in the 30s, but that he would likely have taken some big losses as well. Which, tbh, is how I see it playing out if he had an extended run in the early 2000's as well.

Yeah. I think Sharkey is a scary guy for Jones because he'll come forward w/ a punch like Jones has never seen. But he's also ridiculously easy to hit. I mean, if I were a punching bag, even I would have to blush.

Conn and Jones are very different fighters, but I can see a lot of what worked for Conn against Louis also work for Jones. It's just that we really don't have the evidence that Jones has the necessary fundamentals to fall back on as the fight progresses.

[Rusty Tromboni]

How do you think Fitz would do in today's heavyweight division ?

On the one hand, heavyweights nowadays weigh 220 but again so did Baer and so did Jeffries who went life and death with a shot Fitz.

Have you seen Fitz on a film?

If he lived today he'd go into MMA, not Boxing.


Believe me, as far a being a gifted fighter, he had it. But would you put a proven medieval knight into a modern olympic fencing match? Different worlds.