Would a Prime Muhammad Ali win over a prime Wlad?

[MDPopescu]

- -Cosell was choking on his Toupee when lefty Mildenberger had Ali in a world of hurt. Guarantee if a bigger, stronger, faster lefty 1st rd KO ARTIST like Sanders had led with a headbutt followed by a powerful flurry he coul do the same to Ali.

Manny had joined Wlad for Sanders and they dominated Brewster with just a jab and couple of KDs. Gaming houses had suspended betting the week before because of a su****ious massive betting frenzy on Brewster.

I was looking for funny biz and disappointed until Wlad came out weak as a kitten and could barely stand up, collapsing though scarcely a punch landed after the bell.

I jumped up immediately thinking he was drugged as did Manny and Vitaly. He was hospitalized but the blood tests were negative, but we know big pharma in cahoots with intelligence services all over the country develop all manner of surreptitious drugs that won't register on a drug test.

Just look at the damage BALCO Vic Conte did to athletics, baseball, ect, and now boxing as one obvious example.

... Thanks for this post, man!!!

[robertzimmerman]

Meh i think it's an interesting fight

For the size matchup check David Haye vs Wlad, and granted Haye and Ali are different fighters but Haye is incredibly quick himself, and hits harder than Ali, but in his prime he really couldn't touch klitschko.

People say Wlad is robotic and slow but he's not. Compare him to "big" george foreman or Sonny Liston and he moves a hell of a lot better and has a lot quicker hands than them.

Obviously it's sacrilege to suggest prime Ali has problems with any fighter but Wlad is a different level to anyone he fought and I think Ali would be in tough with him.

If Henry Cooper can blast you the fight before the liston one (which was ali in his prime) then obviously wlad has some chance here.

It would have been a tough fight for both guys. But when looking at the Wlad-Haye fight, both of them were overly cautious.

Wlad was supposedly going in there to punish Haye for all of the crass comments etc, yet he wouldn't commit to trying to stop him, even when he had him trapped up against the ropes. And Haye's upper body movement alone was enough to keep him from being hurt.

Ali wouldn't have been overly cautious, and he'd have been up on his toes, feinting and circling, in the centre of the ring.

[robertzimmerman]

- -The so called prime Ali in his first run was hardly impressive in many fights.

He gave up lots of rds running against ancient Folley, was forced to the ropes and body blasted by Chuvalo who took that fight on short notice, had Cosell choking on his toupee when Mildenberger had him in a world of trouble.

Looked ace against glass London and declared dead on the operating table Cleve Williams.

Enough to dew up the innocent young soft lads who are past it ol'Timers always claiming their fighters are best in every era of boxing.

Wlad had some of the best footwork in boxing used to control distance as did Vitali, and ironically both were headhunters like Ali who backed up in straight lines. Ali burned too much energy running and would be less effective against patient boxers with alltime great power and more athletically and mentally inclined than him.

Size matters to early era forums when Ali idolators was claim he was too big for Joe Louis when that size advantage was 1" in height and 5-10lbs in weight.

Yeah, I know, laughable and they sure had me in stitches . Them was the days!

Running?

Oh dear.

Mildenburger was just another fight on his world tour, where he was fighting every 2 months.

Wlad was more mentally inclined?

Wlad was mentally weak.

He was overly cautious, clinching his opponents and half heartedly/tentatively pawing out the jab.

[robertzimmerman]

- -The Kbros perfected the new "big man" style to dominate 15 yrs of boxing in spite of all the cards stacked against them.

Ali struggled thru the total of his career and just never dominated at the level of the Ks. Like I say, he'd have taken the Haye route starting at cruiser or even LH before moving up to a bit more success than Haye had.

Everyone's circumstances are different.

Ali lost his athletic gifts and he had to change his style as he aged.

Yes, he didn't share the dominance that Wlad did, but then he fought in a different era against different opposition.

Would Wlad have dominated for 15 years in Ali's era?

[robertzimmerman]

- -Wlad was 39 yrs old with a much longer career at the top than Ali.

He was also dealing with a wife that fell apart after the birth of their child.

Ali was younger with less fights when he fell apart again little toofless Leon, but of course I knew Ali wasn't Ali for a long time before that fight.

Hardly fair to ascertain that an aging fighter at his worst shows his true capabilities.

His performance against Fury had nothing to do with age.

You saw in his fight with AJ that he still had a lot left.

[robertzimmerman]

... now: Sanders and Brewster KOd a "prime" Wlad... then Steward came and changed him...

I think that Ali would have easily beaten a "pre-Steward" Wlad...

I honestly believe that the versions of Wlad who lost to Sanders etc would have been more dangerous to Ali.

[robertzimmerman]

28 yrs of age is top physical prime, but more importantly he was at the full height of his mental prime and chomping at the bit after he was greenlighted to fight again.

I would think that is obvious, but unfortunately to many in boxing forums claim to think without providing any evidence.

He'd obviously lost a step upon his return.

That is clearly visible.

His athletic peak was when he was 25 before he was exiled.

[Rusty Tromboni]

How was he in his athletic prime after being out for over 3 years?

He was in his 30's. That is the athletic prime, particularly of a big man. We're not talking about female tennis players here.


The level of opposition awaiting Ali when he returned had skyrocketed. Let's not pretend he fought anything close to Joe Frazier when skill known as Cassius Clay.

Liston was a faded, and probably always overrated, fighter when he met Ali. Ali still only managed to just slip by. Whether or not he had taken that approach had he met Liston in the early 70's, I don't know. It worked. But if he really had lost a step, I don't think any style adjustments would have been for the worse. Honestly, we don't have a good gauge for how Liston might've dealt w/ adversity (a la Foreman vs Frazier and Foreman vs. Lyle; or Tyson vs. Douglas). He walked through Folley and Williams, so I'm not suggesting he was a Heavyweight Julian Jackson. But I think a 70's Ali has no problems standing his ground against Liston, while no one criticizies him for opting to Box in their actual fights.


Either way, both incarnations of Ali (pre and post exile) are meeting a man much more capable than anyone Ali ever fought. He's got the Boxing ability of Norton and the punch of Foreman. Ali wasn't a Locche or Pep. He wasn't even a Larry Holmes. He would resort to fire-fights when his schemes weren't enough. That's how it'll play out against Klitchko.

[billeau2]

that's a good point.


Again, I only think Ali wins this by coming alive in the last three rounds. But it's true that Vlad would struggle w/ Ali's mobility. I just don't see Ali doing any better than he faired against Norton. And Vlad will probably eventually land something with a lot of mustard on it.

Ali had a habit of rising to the competition. He also was aided by an incredible chin.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Wlad knocked Haye into the ropes to pummel just before the bell ended the 2nd rd.

After that he slapped him around with his left hand at will and dropped him a dozen times, utterly emasculating him even if they weren't official KDs. Didn't have to beat up Haye to prove his point.