Flashback...Roid Jones, Jr: The Steroid Scandal

[Mugwump]

I must admit that I didn't fully appreciate the implications of drug use (whether it be recreational or performance-enhancing) until I read Dan Moldea's book on the role of organised crime in professional sports and ******** titled, "Interference".

To be honest I was staggered by just how pervasive the Mob, "Syndicate" and so forth were in all of the major American sports - with the NFL undoubtedly taking the prize. For instance, I didn't realise that the missing element in the movie, Casino, was the link between Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal (played by Robert De Niro in the movie), Carroll Rosenbloom and Al Davis which threatened to sink the sport completely.

For some reason Moldea didn't talk a great deal about boxing - which is a surprise given its tight relationship with Vegas and the same cast of characters who set and manipulated the betting lines.

But as he points out - once you have an athlete hooked on drugs the chances that he becomes embroiled with organised crime are high - at which point he becomes a potential ticking time-bomb waiting to detonate on the sport in question.

This avenue of professional sports really fascinates me. I mean, here in the UK where betting was legalised around the time of Noah and the Ark we just don't see this kind of thing. It's not that we are in any way free from corruption. It just happens ... differently.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Been a while since I perused a WADA, VADA, or USADA banned substances list, but alcohol, tobacco and nicotine, and coffee weren't among them in spite of being known stimulants with alcohol being used heavily in boxing for at least 400 yrs and probably dating back to the original Olympics, yet no moaning from the screaming drug cheat meemies...sweet!!!

[QueensburyRules]

I must admit that I didn't fully appreciate the implications of drug use (whether it be recreational or performance-enhancing) until I read Dan Moldea's book on the role of organised crime in professional sports and ******** titled, "Interference".

To be honest I was staggered by just how pervasive the Mob, "Syndicate" and so forth were in all of the major American sports - with the NFL undoubtedly taking the prize. For instance, I didn't realise that the missing element in the movie, Casino, was the link between Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal (played by Robert De Niro in the movie), Carroll Rosenbloom and Al Davis which threatened to sink the sport completely.

For some reason Moldea didn't talk a great deal about boxing - which is a surprise given its tight relationship with Vegas and the same cast of characters who set and manipulated the betting lines.

But as he points out - once you have an athlete hooked on drugs the chances that he becomes embroiled with organised crime are high - at which point he becomes a potential ticking time-bomb waiting to detonate on the sport in question.

This avenue of professional sports really fascinates me. I mean, here in the UK where betting was legalised around the time of Noah and the Ark we just don't see this kind of thing. It's not that we are in any way free from corruption. It just happens ... differently.

- -See felon Don King fast streaming whores and ******* into his brief monopoly of heavyweight champs.

[Mugwump]

In truth anabolic steroids are - at best - forty year old technology. Today we are in the realms of human growth hormone, blood doping and all manner of highly-complex tailored organic compounds.

If you've got the money there exists myriad exotic substances which transform an athlete from "also-ran" into something you'd expect to see in X-Men (btw - I'd love to know what protein shake Hugh Jackman is drinking!)

I'm inherently su****ious of any athlete who takes an extended sabbatical in Miami, Germany or Switzerland as these three locations appear to be centres for high-end bio-laboratories. Oh ... and throw in Jamaica which - the last time I checked - somehow manages to evade the clutches of international doping testers.

Victor Conte has gone on record to say that he is very su****ious of Usain Bolt. As for other sports such as NBA - it amazes me how guys in their mid-thirties are outperforming stats set in their mid-twenties. I vaguely remember a news report which said Le Bron's name turned up on the invoices of a major Miami lab. Whatever the case the guy looks like he just got off the set of Universal Soldier.

As for combat sports - I think it's endemic now. I mean, look at John Jones. His narrative has become so ridiculous that even Dana White can scarcely keep a straight face. And if it's going on in MMA - it's certainly going on in boxing.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Was that your guilty plea Muggs?

Are we to banish you to Shame Island in the Pacific populated only by wild goats and various bugs, presumably PED free?

Lifetime or 6 months?

[Anthony342]

In truth anabolic steroids are - at best - forty year old technology. Today we are in the realms of human growth hormone, blood doping and all manner of highly-complex tailored organic compounds.

If you've got the money there exists myriad exotic substances which transform an athlete from "also-ran" into something you'd expect to see in X-Men (btw - I'd love to know what protein shake Hugh Jackman is drinking!)

I'm inherently su****ious of any athlete who takes an extended sabbatical in Miami, Germany or Switzerland as these three locations appear to be centres for high-end bio-laboratories. Oh ... and throw in Jamaica which - the last time I checked - somehow manages to evade the clutches of international doping testers.

Victor Conte has gone on record to say that he is very su****ious of Usain Bolt. As for other sports such as NBA - it amazes me how guys in their mid-thirties are outperforming stats set in their mid-twenties. I vaguely remember a news report which said Le Bron's name turned up on the invoices of a major Miami lab. Whatever the case the guy looks like he just got off the set of Universal Soldier.

As for combat sports - I think it's endemic now. I mean, look at John Jones. His narrative has become so ridiculous that even Dana White can scarcely keep a straight face. And if it's going on in MMA - it's certainly going on in boxing.

So they're doing better when they would normally be declining? Good. It not only makes the sports they compete in more exciting, but it allows those athletes to extend their own careers. They should've let fighters continue to use TRT. It was helping Vitor Belfort go on a winning streak later in his career and level the playing field against younger fighters. There was a book written called Chasing The Scream about some country that legalized all drugs and all the fears politicians had about crime going up and addiction increasing didn't happen. It was probably also because people were also allowed to more safely go to a hospital to get clean, detoxed and rehab without being arrested as well.

[Mugwump]

So they're doing better when they would normally be declining? Good. It nor only makes the sports they compete in more exciting, but it allows those athletes to extend their own careers.

Yes and no. I mean you can make a case for extending the careers of talented athletes. But essentially you've turned the sport into a pay-to-win competition.

Those with the most money will have access to the best quality synthetics which will produce the greatest advances in performance.

I mean - look at the Serena Williams situation. A couple of years back she bitterly complained of being "the most tested athlete in professional sports" and that there was an "agenda". The only agenda I can see is the Lawn Tennis Association desperately trying to figure out how she can have shoulders bigger than Lawrence Taylor's and *not* be failing their dope tests.

An even better example is the Lance Armstrong case where it's inconceivable that his major sponsors didn't know he was juicing. Ever since Jordan turned Nike into a global-superpower elite-level athletes are now pretty much inseparable from their sponsors. It's a joint effort and there's big, big money to be made. OK if you are the guy at the top of the tree. Not so good if you are coming in as a youngster trying to compete against the spending power of Nike, Adidas etc. etc.

And if drug use continues to be prohibited under the statues of WADA or some other regulatory body you are effectively giving the likes of organised crime free reign to get their hooks into athletes using PEDs. As Moldea points out exhaustively in his book - the pharmaceutical and biotech arena is pretty tight. If an athlete is juicing word gets about. Pretty soon he's getting a call from guys with foreign accents making him an offer he can't refuse...

No easy answers to this problem.

[billeau2]

Yes and no. I mean you can make a case for extending the careers of talented athletes. But essentially you've turned the sport into a pay-to-win competition.

Those with the most money will have access to the best quality synthetics which will produce the greatest advances in performance.

I mean - look at the Serena Williams situation. A couple of years back she bitterly complained of being "the most tested athlete in professional sports" and that there was an "agenda". The only agenda I can see is the Lawn Tennis Association desperately trying to figure out how she can have shoulders bigger than Lawrence Taylor's and *not* be failing their dope tests.

An even better example is the Lance Armstrong case where it's inconceivable that his major sponsors didn't know he was juicing. Ever since Jordan turned Nike into a global-superpower elite-level athletes are now pretty much inseparable from their sponsors. It's a joint effort and there's big, big money to be made. OK if you are the guy at the top of the tree. Not so good if you are coming in as a youngster trying to compete against the spending power of Nike, Adidas etc. etc.

And if drug use continues to be prohibited under the statues of WADA or some other regulatory body you are effectively giving the likes of organised crime free reign to get their hooks into athletes using PEDs. As Moldea points out exhaustively in his book - the pharmaceutical and biotech arena is pretty tight. If an athlete is juicing word gets about. Pretty soon he's getting a call from guys with foreign accents making him an offer he can't refuse...

No easy answers to this problem.

I think you and Anthony are having the right debate here. Its not an easy issue to make clear because of how comprehensive and interwined,drug enhancement and physiology are, along with what these issues masquerade as, and how they are mischaracterized.

First: What these issues are not, on the level of application and use, is cut and dry. There is no drug that makes a person super stronger... Or makes someone open up psychologically (like ecstacy). Instead drugs have a mechanism for action that has benefits, and loss. Steriods used in moderation may cause the body to produce more testosterone. How the body responds to this depends on a lot of things.

When we take vitamins they cause the body to also break down energy into sugars more efficiently and make us stronger... But what does "stronger" mean? One mechanism is steriodal, the other is as a nutritional catalyst, are steriods bad because they cause more pronounced changes? And what about drugs that "work" that we do not understand HOW they produce a benefit? and what could be loss down the road?

For example, drugs that work on brain chemistry. Prozac, Ecstacy, MDM, etc... these drugs that make people feel better... But with these brain chemistry drugs that work on dopamine and other reception sites, science actually does not know WHAT exactly they do! So we cannot even comment on the mechanism of these drugs, only on their affects on the subject. At least with steriods we understand their mechanism of action totally on a subject.

These drugs have many uses in fact, that are not mysterious...
Steriods are used to heal quickly when an athlete is older and takes longer to do so. Steriods can be used to put on muscle mass, all balanced out with other behaviors, and side effects in the body. None of these actions positive or negative lead directly to better performance. AGAIN this cannot be emphasized enough: there is no magic drug that makes an athlete Just better. Was Holyfield better when he was stronger? did it slow him down? Did it allow him to gain some weight that he could put on with no problems in speed of delivery for his punches? How did Conte help Bobby Bonds hit a baseball better? Bonds was a decent hitter and then when he got with Conte he became a sensation...But how? What most people do not know is that Bonds did a lot more than just take steriods. He did nutritional therapies, he was one of the first hitters to train in strength training regularly and with intensity.

My point is that there is no magic bullet that these drugs give one. they are sometimes not even properly understood... It hs been said that LSD, Psilicibyne and MDMA/Ecstacy compounds that are related to speed...have an incredible cure rate for addiction when used in a controlled setting with some direction from a therapist...Should the fact that we do not fully understand the mechanism of HOW these drugs work prevent us from using them?

If it were up to me, I would do the following: draw a distinction between an athlete who uses hormones, steriodal compounds as part of a training routine that is long term, that has an affect that can be part of the training process on the body versus taking a substance for an immediate advantage, or "doping." So...Instead of an older athlete training and cycleing with steriods, nutrition, training, an athlete gets oxygenated blood in a transfusion, that should be illegal always to me. It is the same as an athlete taking a hit of crack to get super bezerker in a match, or an athlete taking hard liquor to not feel the effects of blows that might cause permanent injury later, or give him a defensive advantage. That is my two cents.

Incorporating the best drugs for the best results should not be dependent on what drugs are socially acceptable...And that is more often than not what happens. In places like Japan, if someone gets caught with booze and meth or coke, it is socially acceptable because these drugs are often used to produce more at work. herione which is actually not as physiologically dangerous, is a no no because addicts become unproductive! That is social norms affecting drug use. Most people do not even know what makes a steriod a class of drug, they just assume they are bad. yet most of us have used them from time to time...

[QueensburyRules]

- -Not ever used a steroid, nor my male friends.

No need to project your own shame to me and my kind.

[Mugwump]

On the argument that there is "no magic bullet" ... I think way back in the early days of steroids, amphetamines etc. you could make that claim.

But not in the era of designer synthetics, blood doping, human growth hormone.

I mean, the difference in performance/endurance - before/after blood doping is like night and day. You are boosting the amount of saturated oxygen within the human body. Which means you can perform for longer and at a higher level. Ask any cyclist.