Wladimir, Vitali Klitschko - Which Brother Ranks Higher

[HOUDINI563]

You would never see either brother in a give and take battle like Ali had vs Frazier, or Shaver or Foreman. Both brother would have either been koed or quit way before the final bell.

[billeau2]

Wouldn't have gone on with his ama trainer manning his corner, obvious to all but the oblivious. Vitali has 2 losses, and how many Ali? Any Leons?

Yeah!!! the Klits rank right up there with Wilt!!! and and Valuev!!! Who beat John Ruiz, the only fighter in history who threw less punches than his manager Stoney.

Your an idiot and never fail to impress as such.

[OctoberRed]

You would never see either brother in a give and take battle like Ali had vs Frazier, or Shaver or Foreman. Both brother would have either been koed or quit way before the final bell.

What about Vitali-Lennox?

[JAB5239]

What about Vitali-Lennox?

He showed heart. But let's remember that was Lewis coming in at his heaviest ever weight. Could Vits have stood up, or would he have stood up to 12 blistering rounds had the fight not been stopped? Hard to say. But the Byrd fight does him no favors when looking at it this way.

[billeau2]

What about Vitali-Lennox?

I seldom will make an excuse for a fighter. I have to contradict myself in this case... I own it. Lewis was training to fight a very weak opponent. I forget the guy's name... But it was a case where the guy was not a big puncher, not particularly fast, skilled, etc. he came in expecting an early punch out or so... the fight fell through and Lewis agreed to fight Vitalie. Seldom does lewis get credit for this decision when people start the crap about ducking Vitalie.

To be fair to Vitalie I believe he took the fight short notice, but seemed to look in shape. Never-the-less ... Ok lets say for the sake of argument that Vitalie could have been more prepared.

Heres the thing: Greatness rises when given an opprortunity to do so. You cannot contain it! The great Harry Wills was a trainer and his friend was scheduled to fight and had to pull out... Wills stepped in! turned out to be talented. Mike Weaver, prior to boxing gets into a scrap in the Army winds up Koing a guy who happens to be the Army heavyweight champ. Tada! You see a pattern here? So here is Vitalie... claiming to want to fight Lewis... The stage is set... Vitalie has his moment!

my argument here? Vitalie saw the situation. He had a chance,but his opportunities were limited because of the damage he took. Lewis came on stronger and appeared to be getting in the bigger shots towards the end... Lewis showed that he had a chin... Lewis showed will and resolve... Lewis found a way to convince the fight people that mattered that Vitalie was taking a beating... By contrast? Vitalie stayed in his lane... did not change gears... Did not risk it all, go for Lewis like a man who would not go gently into the night...

Vitalie later cried about it... But lets look at Karma in this situation regarding Lewis: When Lewis and Holly fought, a horrid decision was rendered. Lewis obviously beat the bstard maker... And Lewis was, as Vitalie was after the Lewis fight... Livid! Holly said something very wise and prophetic when asked to comment on the decision. To this day I think of these words when looking at Lewis and his body of work: Holly said "Lewis had me! he was too scared to KO me, to take the chance... Its his own fault for leaving it to the judges." Wise words indeed!

Great fighters have a way of being resolute in their actions when they need to... Lewis, for all his greatness, and he was a great fighter... IMO was not as great as some because he was hesitant, too safe at times, not resolute in his aggression when he needed to be, the way a fighter like Liston (for example) was... or Ali was, when he fought with a broken jaw, when he got up from the Frazier hook...

But I also firmly believe that Lewis showed hints of that quality when he fought on against Vitalie... Vitalie, by comparison, was never near that level. Vitalie never showed he had the resoluteness to fight through, to pick it up and finish (Lewis) when he had a chance. I even think a great fighter who is resolute influences those who would stop a fight... Tyson Fury has hints of greatness that way. He was cut bad against Wallin...But everything he did, showed that he wanted to fight on... he never looked, or fought like a man who might need some help for his own good.

[JAB5239]

I seldom will make an excuse for a fighter. I have to contradict myself in this case... I own it. Lewis was training to fight a very weak opponent. I forget the guy's name... But it was a case where the guy was not a big puncher, not particularly fast, skilled, etc. he came in expecting an early punch out or so... the fight fell through and Lewis agreed to fight Vitalie. Seldom does lewis get credit for this decision when people start the crap about ducking Vitalie.

To be fair to Vitalie I believe he took the fight short notice, but seemed to look in shape. Never-the-less ... Ok lets say for the sake of argument that Vitalie could have been more prepared.

Heres the thing: Greatness rises when given an opprortunity to do so. You cannot contain it! The great Harry Wills was a trainer and his friend was scheduled to fight and had to pull out... Wills stepped in! turned out to be talented. Mike Weaver, prior to boxing gets into a scrap in the Army winds up Koing a guy who happens to be the Army heavyweight champ. Tada! You see a pattern here? So here is Vitalie... claiming to want to fight Lewis... The stage is set... Vitalie has his moment!

my argument here? Vitalie saw the situation. He had a chance,but his opportunities were limited because of the damage he took. Lewis came on stronger and appeared to be getting in the bigger shots towards the end... Lewis showed that he had a chin... Lewis showed will and resolve... Lewis found a way to convince the fight people that mattered that Vitalie was taking a beating... By contrast? Vitalie stayed in his lane... did not change gears... Did not risk it all, go for Lewis like a man who would not go gently into the night...

Vitalie later cried about it... But lets look at Karma in this situation regarding Lewis: When Lewis and Holly fought, a horrid decision was rendered. Lewis obviously beat the bstard maker... And Lewis was, as Vitalie was after the Lewis fight... Livid! Holly said something very wise and prophetic when asked to comment on the decision. To this day I think of these words when looking at Lewis and his body of work: Holly said "Lewis had me! he was too scared to KO me, to take the chance... Its his own fault for leaving it to the judges." Wise words indeed!

Great fighters have a way of being resolute in their actions when they need to... Lewis, for all his greatness, and he was a great fighter... IMO was not as great as some because he was hesitant, too safe at times, not resolute in his aggression when he needed to be, the way a fighter like Liston (for example) was... or Ali was, when he fought with a broken jaw, when he got up from the Frazier hook...

But I also firmly believe that Lewis showed hints of that quality when he fought on against Vitalie... Vitalie, by comparison, was never near that level. Vitalie never showed he had the resoluteness to fight through, to pick it up and finish (Lewis) when he had a chance. I even think a great fighter who is resolute influences those who would stop a fight... Tyson Fury has hints of greatness that way. He was cut bad against Wallin...But everything he did, showed that he wanted to fight on... he never looked, or fought like a man who might need some help for his own good.

What a great post!! Very well thought out and objective.

[billeau2]

What a great post!! Very well thought out and objective.

Thanks... That was a great fight... And its funny because people get so divided they seldom mention that fact.

[OctoberRed]

I seldom will make an excuse for a fighter. I have to contradict myself in this case... I own it. Lewis was training to fight a very weak opponent. I forget the guy's name... But it was a case where the guy was not a big puncher, not particularly fast, skilled, etc. he came in expecting an early punch out or so... the fight fell through and Lewis agreed to fight Vitalie. Seldom does lewis get credit for this decision when people start the crap about ducking Vitalie.

To be fair to Vitalie I believe he took the fight short notice, but seemed to look in shape. Never-the-less ... Ok lets say for the sake of argument that Vitalie could have been more prepared.

Heres the thing: Greatness rises when given an opprortunity to do so. You cannot contain it! The great Harry Wills was a trainer and his friend was scheduled to fight and had to pull out... Wills stepped in! turned out to be talented. Mike Weaver, prior to boxing gets into a scrap in the Army winds up Koing a guy who happens to be the Army heavyweight champ. Tada! You see a pattern here? So here is Vitalie... claiming to want to fight Lewis... The stage is set... Vitalie has his moment!

my argument here? Vitalie saw the situation. He had a chance,but his opportunities were limited because of the damage he took. Lewis came on stronger and appeared to be getting in the bigger shots towards the end... Lewis showed that he had a chin... Lewis showed will and resolve... Lewis found a way to convince the fight people that mattered that Vitalie was taking a beating... By contrast? Vitalie stayed in his lane... did not change gears... Did not risk it all, go for Lewis like a man who would not go gently into the night...

Vitalie later cried about it... But lets look at Karma in this situation regarding Lewis: When Lewis and Holly fought, a horrid decision was rendered. Lewis obviously beat the bstard maker... And Lewis was, as Vitalie was after the Lewis fight... Livid! Holly said something very wise and prophetic when asked to comment on the decision. To this day I think of these words when looking at Lewis and his body of work: Holly said "Lewis had me! he was too scared to KO me, to take the chance... Its his own fault for leaving it to the judges." Wise words indeed!

Great fighters have a way of being resolute in their actions when they need to... Lewis, for all his greatness, and he was a great fighter... IMO was not as great as some because he was hesitant, too safe at times, not resolute in his aggression when he needed to be, the way a fighter like Liston (for example) was... or Ali was, when he fought with a broken jaw, when he got up from the Frazier hook...

But I also firmly believe that Lewis showed hints of that quality when he fought on against Vitalie... Vitalie, by comparison, was never near that level. Vitalie never showed he had the resoluteness to fight through, to pick it up and finish (Lewis) when he had a chance. I even think a great fighter who is resolute influences those who would stop a fight... Tyson Fury has hints of greatness that way. He was cut bad against Wallin...But everything he did, showed that he wanted to fight on... he never looked, or fought like a man who might need some help for his own good.

He was going to fight Kirk Johnson, who Vitali destroyed in his first defense. Big fail for Dino Duva, who signed that blob for over 1 million.

[elfag]

vitali was the better fighter with better attributes. didnt gas, hard to hit, never changed his style, consistent heavy handed power, iron chin.

Wlad had the 10 year run as champ and better resume, better one punch power but steward changed his style to jab jab hold to protect his chin. didnt embrace his old euro style and tried to be more fluid but at the end of the day you saw tyson school him and showed he was still robotic underneath it all. could also gas out in fights.

vitali had consistent power in every shot, broke guys down, that is why he had the higher KO percentage even if his one punch power was less because every shot was hard. wlad was a jab and grab until he felt the risk was low enough to allow him to open up. pre steward wlad was more offensive and took more risks.

[elfag]

I seldom will make an excuse for a fighter. I have to contradict myself in this case... I own it. Lewis was training to fight a very weak opponent. I forget the guy's name... But it was a case where the guy was not a big puncher, not particularly fast, skilled, etc. he came in expecting an early punch out or so... the fight fell through and Lewis agreed to fight Vitalie. Seldom does lewis get credit for this decision when people start the crap about ducking Vitalie.

To be fair to Vitalie I believe he took the fight short notice, but seemed to look in shape. Never-the-less ... Ok lets say for the sake of argument that Vitalie could have been more prepared.

as I remember it, vitali was going to be on the undercard and it was against a complete bum. they were building up to a vitali or wlad fight for Lewis and i think wlad had a recent loss at that point, maybe the brewster fight. that is why vitali was on the undercard.

yeah lewis was going to fight johnson but vitali also thought he was going to fight a super bum and not lennox lewis. so that goes both ways.

lewis opened a cut when he was holding and hitting and the glove grazed vitalis eye with a partial connect, ripping it open. that was luck on his part, he was otherwise losing the fight. in a rematch what would the strategy be, to hope he opened a cut again? the punch that opened the cut was technically illegal though no ref does much about holding and hitting.

lewis should have given a rematch and he woudl have been very well compensated for it. he knew at his age that his chances of losing the rematch were very high so he declined the career high payday and retired.