Charles "Sonny" Liston vs. Rocky Marciano

[The Old LefHook]

Enough unknowns to make the fight interesting and keep certainty in the shadows.

1 How much of an actual quitter is Liston?
2 How much can Rock actually take?
3 Will Sonny employ Foreman's push technique?

Those are two of the main questions, and this fight should answer both.

I believe Sonny hit harder than anyone Rock ever fought, including Louis. Joe was lucky to land one shot at a time by the stage he met Rock. He was no longer the great combination puncher. Rock should be decently easy for Sonny to hit. But Rock does not square up enough to make Foreman's push technique a good option. By the time he squares up he is right in your face. Otherwise he is often doing his weird lean to the right, precluding the shoulder-pushing technique altogether.

[johnbook]

Enough unknowns to make the fight interesting and keep certainty in the shadows.

1 How much of an actual quitter is Liston?
2 How much can Rock actually take?
3 Will Sonny employ Foreman's push technique?

Those are two of the main questions, and this fight should answer both.

I believe Sonny hit harder than anyone Rock ever fought, including Louis. Joe was lucky to land one shot at a time by the stage he met Rock. He was no longer the great combination puncher. Rock should be decently easy for Sonny to hit. But Rock does not square up enough to make Foreman's push technique a good option. By the time he squares up he is right in your face. Otherwise he is often doing his weird lean to the right, precluding the shoulder-pushing technique altogether.

Well Foreman's push technique was more multifaceted than that. See vs Frazier I. He didn't just push him back. Some of his pushes were to the side as he danced to the other side. Like a matador. If ref allowed it, as Mercante screwed up in that fight, George would have been able to push Rock one way or the other. So could Liston if he wanted to.
Liston by KO or TKO

If they had 3 kd/rd rule, that might be the way it'd end as the Rock would keep getting up, but...

[The Old LefHook]

Liston was naturally heavy handed and possessed good technique to boost it.

[QueensburyRules]

I believe Sonny hit harder than anyone Rock ever fought, including Louis. Joe was lucky to land one shot at a time by the stage he met Rock.

- -That was before Rock got his title shot.

Before his, Sonny got his jaw busted and whooped by little Monte Marshall, so imagine what that still ranked Louis would've done to Sonny that night!

Ouchy, Lef Hooky City!

[johnbook]

Reminder

This premieres in 2 days on SHO:

PARIAH: THE LIVES AND DEATHS OF SONNY LISTON
Rated TVMA • 89 minutes

"Overcoming the seemingly insurmountable odds that life threw his way, Liston became the heavyweight champion of the world when he knocked out Floyd Patterson in 1962. Just eight years later, his wife finds him dead in their Las Vegas home from a supposed heroin overdose. Su****ion as to the cause of death pervaded among those that knew him."

[them_apples]

Rocky didn't only fight cruiserweights, this is the big misconception. The best fighters he faced were "cruiserweights" but this has rang true in the heavyweight division for years. who knows maybe even this upcoming year, with usyk. Speed kills.
Rocky still koed a lot of heavyweights, they just weren't of note, and they all went down way easier than the quicker more technical proficient cruisers.

This is a really tough matchup. Liston has the strength advantage, but not by much. Rocky is very strong for his size (see Joe Louis fight) but Louis isn't quite as strong as Liston (I know Louis is past prime, but we are judging strength here, and he had over 20 lbs on the rock). Rocky however, hit's harder in my book. Rocky has the type of a shot that if he hits you flush he injures your head and even if you don't go down you are being broken down. He knows this, so he hits your arms, joints, head and body - he might even hit your hands.

I think Liston drops and kinda schools rocky early, but heart a bit of craft and a hard shot might turn this fight ugly. Rocky to me is just too tough to get blown out, and when he gets hurt he fights back even harder. I definetely wouldn't bet on this fight, but there is a chance Liston get's tired and tries taking a break, while he does that he starts taking damage. Being 6 ft 1 it's not easy enough for him to hold Rocky off in the late rounds, and I don't think he hits as hard in the pocket with those long arms.

Rocky Falls into the categorie of a rare breed, he's got so much heart he's almost impossible to make give up. just like the more limited Chuvalo, he could be losing every round but he still miraculously tries. That fact that Rocky believes in his power makes it all the more so. The only way to woop Rocky is to find an efficient way to prevent him from getting inside (so you don't tire and he doesn't get you). If its round 10 and he can tell his oponent isn't tired yet because he failed to make them work at the cost of losing rounds, then he might mentally check out. Thats a big if though.

[The Old LefHook]

I just watched Patterson/Liston I, and there is one clear example of the Foreman two hand shoulder push. It stands to reason with Liston's reach this technique would be in his repertoire. We all know George was a bit of an understudy to Sonny in his transition from amateur to pro. George would have been too big for Sonny to try that on when they sparred and Sonny's arms were too long arms for George to try it on him. That technique has probably been around as long as men had different length arms. I call it Foreman's technique because his usage of it in Frazier I was the the most extensive example I know of, especially in a giant fight.

Rocky would have been a natural for Liston to try out a variant of the technique.

[ecto55]

I think the best Liston beats the best Marciano....


Re. Liston's heart, watch the Williams' fights. Liston was tough mofo.

I think any 'quitting' on Liston's part (if it even occurred, so hard to be definitive on these things given the passage of time, versions, bias' etc) had more to do with him potentially catching a NoI bullet in the back than being scared of fearful on any 'in the ring' damage.

[Steveferocious]

If you want to imagine how the fight would go watch first round of Marciano Walcott 1. Walcott was throwing rock around like a rag doll and floored him. Rock got up and grabbed for his life. Imagine putting in Joes place a guy just as fast as him just as good boxing skills slightly taller much longer reach and 17 or so pounds of muscle heavier. Result Im afraid is clear Rock doesn't make it out of 1st round.

[Nash out]

Marciano. Liston was very slow and overrated. He's just used to hype up Ali's resume, but truth be told, he was a 50 year old, stiff, powerful robot. Marciano had some speed and genuine power as well in both hands, also a better boxer than Liston.

Marciano's style was copied by future Hall of Fame Boxer Rocky Balboa, and we all saw how effective that style was for Balboa, who picked up some amazing wins - Mr T, Hulk Hogan, Apollo Creed, Ivan Drago, etc. Nash out.