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I think Mayweather has reached that weird spot where he is underrated and overrated all at the same time. The newer generation of fight fans overrate his abilities and a lot of the old ones underrate him. Personally, I think he would do far better against a lot of fighters in the pantheon of all time greats than is put forth by some. However, on the flip side, he would have a lot more trouble than is stated by others.
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Yeah I think you've hit the nail on the head here... I think from an unbiased point of view he makes the top 5-8 welters all time.Originally posted by Hawkins View PostComment
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I do not think he can make top 10 welters AT. Too small for that weight. He cannot beat Robinson, Gavilan, Leonard, Hearns, Basilo, Walker, De la Hoya, Servo, Griffith, Benitez, Duran. And probably several more I am not familiar enough with to list. As an AT welterweight Mayweather is too small. Too many great welters have too much height on him.Comment
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Top 15 then?Comment
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Mayweather probably makes top 15 AT welterweights, though.
Come to think of it, Roy Jones in his prime probably got hit less than any fighter I can think of. In my opinion, he did this with peerless athleticism rather than a deep medicine bag of traditional techniques. I always considered Mayweather the better pure boxer, if you stripped them both of a fly's reflexes.Comment
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Chin: Jake La Motta (Seems to be legendary and I can't think of another.)
Handspeed: Muhammad Ali (It is probably not Ali but he convinced the world it was, so much so that his opponents expected to get hit; the fastest guy is probably some mini-flyweight Thai fighter with a name no one can pronounce.)
Footwork: Floyd Mayweather Jr. (I don't claim to understand what he is doing but he defines the phrase 'give him angles.')
Defense: Hector Camacho (At the end of his career he was a shell of his greatness but still impossible to hit cleanly; past his prime he still extended great fighters the distance; 88 fights never stopped.)
Power: George Foreman (The power in his punches came from no velocity; sheer strength is all they seemed to be.)
P4P Power: Jack Dempsey (No fighter beat down larger men as often; Julian Jackson's record is impressive but he never brutalized a man 60 lbs heavier the way Dempsey did, several times. [Note name bias])
Conditioning: Rocky Marciano (The stories, if only half true, are bizarre.)
Ring Generalship: Carlos Monzon (In Re to the OP I agree he did it from pure physical dominance but he still gets the nod; he dominated the flow of every fight.)
Ring IQ: Tie - Archie Moore/Wille Pep: (Fight for three decades you figure everything out.)Comment
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Roy Jones was one of the most naturally gifted fighters I've seen and at his peak he was as close to untouchable as anyone can be.
That said, the moment he crested the peak of his abilities the drop-off came alarmingly quickly.
And herein is the problem I have with Jones. Over the years there have been many fighters spread across the weight divisions who were similarly gifted but when their natural athleticism, reflexes etc. began to wane - they ADAPTED. They changed their fighting styles, tactics etc. and STILL managed to be dominant fighters.
The Ali who returned to boxing after being turfed out of the sport was a shadow of the former fighter. And yet he reserved arguably his greatest performances for the latter part of his career - often fighting in ways which would have been completely alien to the young Ali.
Look at George Foreman winning titles at an age when most people are struggling to get their breath after a trip up the stairs. His adaptation to the new reality was even more radical than Ali's.
I don't want to get into a debate about whether Floyd is a better fighter than Roy - but he's had as much success since he turned his hands into mashed potato than when he was knocking guys out in his prime!
I remember that awful, awful fight Jones fought against Calzaghe (a lesser fighter, but someone else who was forced to RADICALLY alter his fighting technique after he passed his physical prime and yet IMPROVED). Despite the fact that Jones' speed, reflexes and explosive power were completely shot to pieces he was STILL trying to fight like the old Roy Jones. Madness!
I don't want to sound too critical of the guy because as I've said - at his best he was untouchable. But his lack of willingness (or ability?) to adapt has always left a question mark against his name when I'm talking about the absolute best of the best.Comment
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A guy who gets beat up by Mario Maddona is a "top 5-8 welter"?Originally posted by JayID View Post
A dude that ducked Manny (former flyweight) till he was a shadow of himself is a top "5-8 welter"?
I can play this game too....
Berbick is a top 5-8 heavy all timer
Joey Maxim is a top 5-8 p4p all timer
Tarver is a top 5-8 light heavy all timer
Marciano is TBE
He killed Louis, Charles, Moore and Walcott
Plus HE NEVER LOST.
He was the best heavyweight ever therefore he is the best fighter ever.
Could Mayflower or Robinson beat Marciano H2H over 15 rounds?
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Originally posted by Juan Acero View Post
Be salty all you want. I'm in no way shape or form a Mayweather fan. I appreciate his boxing skills but that's the extent of it. However, whether you like to admit it or not, you will struggle to find 5-8 other fighters with a resume as packed with future HOF'ers, champions and former champions as Mayweather Jr.
Yes, all of the fighters on his resume weren't "prime" fighters. But be realistic now.... Who in history has a resume facing more than 5 World class/elite boxers. Nevermind in their primes. There aren't many.
If you actually take the time to look into the fighters he supposedly "ducked", the very very vast majority of the so called "ducked" were not even valid opponent's at the time of calling out! Many were above his current weight class. You cannot fight everyone at the drop of a hat... And if you don't you are accused of "ducking" them. With the exception of Manny, whom I do agree that Mayweather ducked and dodged for a few years to some extent, also avoided margarito (cheat). He fought the rest when possible.
Even so, there isn't anyone on his resume who I see beating him.. even if they were in their primes.Last edited by JayID; 09-01-2017, 06:27 PM.Comment
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