Roy Jones vs Marciano

[cheddarsblocks]

I think Marciano was a heavyweight and Jones was a middleweight. Its like a prime vs prime. It will be difficult for Mariano to get Jones if he is moving well. Marciano has the chances of winning if he would hit Jones in any part. And that can slowly break Jones down in either ways.

[Anthony342]

I've found that home cooking can create some fabulous contraptions! For hitting I would take a hemp rice sack...different sizes depending on how much Himilayan Basmatti one wanted to buy, a combo of dried beans and peas....put the beans and peas in the hemp bag, tape it up so it has just a little give....Walla! put it on a post, one has a great target to practice precise strikes with an ungloved hand...one can do finger strikes on this thing also.

For a speedbag that one can use with blade practice, I take the speed bag top section and instead of a bag, I add a shoelace. And if oen takes an old Gi and an old bag, wraps the gi around the bag, one can protect the old bag contents and have a visual aid to targeting.

The training aids that I built are still around because they do not break. lol

I'm sure we've all met some old bags we'd like to throw a few shots at.

[billeau2]

What do you mean by a finger strike, Bill? I assume that is like a poke. My ex wife in her younger days saw a man die in a bar fight from such a poke to the eye. She said the other guy poked him in the eye very purposefully and he fell down dead immediately. You don't forget such a story.

There are a number of such strikes. Here are some we practice:

a) You take the thumb and do the Fonz, the "A-ok" sign, when striking with the thumb it is held sideways so that it functions as a kind of dull knife. One might strike to the cateroid sinus in the neck, between the ribs, or even in the sinus between the groin and the leg. Also one can strike with the thumb and still grab flesh and throw.

b) opening the hand into a spear separating one, or two fingers out at a time, this can be uses to the throat, to the eye, like your wife saw. The danger is not pushing the eye from the socket, which looks horrible and will usually end it, but behind the eyes there is not much protection so one could conceviably cause trauma to the optic nerve and even the brain barrier.

Your wife probably saw a bit of a fluke. the pain and realization that the eye is compromised can cause a heart attack for example. Intersting aside: taking the entire back of the hand and striking the eye socket can cause, somewhat reliably, a knock out. there are apparently nerve clusters there that shut the system down when hit hard and accurately.

There are many more variations, including, when a ju jutsu person grabs a collar they grab with the palm up, this is for a lot of reasons involving the cateroids and leverage but for our purposes: the pinky is left out and can fit right into the cateroid sinus, which is another strike.

using the fingers involves some strengthening but mostly leverage and understanding alignment. finger striking with the index ton your plexis is more about having the finger connected to the wrist and the wrist connected to the elbow, etc etc what we call communicative locking.

[Anthony342]

Speaking of hand and finger strength, even heard the famous stories about Tonga Fifita, who used to be a pro wreslter under the names King Tonga, Haku and Meng? One was that he single handedly fought off about 6 cops at a bar to avoid arrest for him and his friend, another was that he got mad at a fan for calling him fake, so he reached into the guys mouth and pulled out two of the other guy's bottom teeth with his bare hand. That takes some strength. He also broke handcuffs off Superman style.

[The Old LefHook]

There are a number of such strikes. Here are some we practice:

a) You take the thumb and do the Fonz, the "A-ok" sign, when striking with the thumb it is held sideways so that it functions as a kind of dull knife. One might strike to the cateroid sinus in the neck, between the ribs, or even in the sinus between the groin and the leg. Also one can strike with the thumb and still grab flesh and throw.

b) opening the hand into a spear separating one, or two fingers out at a time, this can be uses to the throat, to the eye, like your wife saw. The danger is not pushing the eye from the socket, which looks horrible and will usually end it, but behind the eyes there is not much protection so one could conceviably cause trauma to the optic nerve and even the brain barrier.

Your wife probably saw a bit of a fluke. the pain and realization that the eye is compromised can cause a heart attack for example. Intersting aside: taking the entire back of the hand and striking the eye socket can cause, somewhat reliably, a knock out. there are apparently nerve clusters there that shut the system down when hit hard and accurately.

There are many more variations, including, when a ju jutsu person grabs a collar they grab with the palm up, this is for a lot of reasons involving the cateroids and leverage but for our purposes: the pinky is left out and can fit right into the cateroid sinus, which is another strike.

using the fingers involves some strengthening but mostly leverage and understanding alignment. finger striking with the index ton your plexis is more about having the finger connected to the wrist and the wrist connected to the elbow, etc etc what we call communicative locking.

Scary stuff, in my opinion. Like black widow spiders and to a lesser extent pitbulls, one could wish they did not even exist.

I am sure that for a lot of people with violent tendencies, the urge to practice these techniques on live subjets is a temptation. You can never know what kinds of techniques an attatcking thug has learned. Some people could only apply themselves to something of this nature because they find it so appealing.

Even crudely learned, the techniques you describe could be deadly. I doubt that the man who killed the other that my wife saw was an expert like yourself, but he got death done.

That said, wow! I am glad most people are lazy and give up easily.

That is very interesting about ju jitsu masters grabbing the collar thumb-up so they can use the digit to exploit vital spots of anatomy.

Now with boxing there is a way to practice your techniques on live subjects. Boxers generally get all the scrap they want in a ring.

There is nowhere to practice finger pokes and the like in a sanctioned situation as there is in boxing and MMA.

I have long fingernails on the right hand for guitar playing and my nails are naturally quite hard. Even not fashioned purposely into something jagged or sharp they could cause a lot of damage employed as you describe. I have always been aware of that. The problem is you run a real risk of a finger jam when you try something like that, which immediately puts one out of the guitar business. But in a desperate situation it would be an option.

[Miguel666]

jones was not a very good boxer he would be sereiouosley injured by marciano

[billeau2]

Scary stuff, in my opinion. Like black widow spiders and to a lesser extent pitbulls, one could wish they did not even exist.

I am sure that for a lot of people with violent tendencies, the urge to practice these techniques on live subjets is a temptation. You can never know what kinds of techniques an attatcking thug has learned. Some people could only apply themselves to something of this nature because they find it so appealing.

Even crudely learned, the techniques you describe could be deadly. I doubt that the man who killed the other that my wife saw was an expert like yourself, but he got death done.

That said, wow! I am glad most people are lazy and give up easily.

That is very interesting about ju jitsu masters grabbing the collar thumb-up so they can use the digit to exploit vital spots of anatomy.

Now with boxing there is a way to practice your techniques on live subjects. Boxers generally get all the scrap they want in a ring.

There is nowhere to practice finger pokes and the like in a sanctioned situation as there is in boxing and MMA.

I have long fingernails on the right hand for guitar playing and my nails are naturally quite hard. Even not fashioned purposely into something jagged or sharp they could cause a lot of damage employed as you describe. I have always been aware of that. The problem is you run a real risk of a finger jam when you try something like that, which immediately puts one out of the guitar business. But in a desperate situation it would be an option.

Ill tell you a secret: The worse injuries in martial arts are in the "Gentle arts" the "do" arts... Judo, Karate Do, Aikido... Because people get to romp a bit (not so much Aikido). You always need to romp but as one gets better one aproaches the art clinically. The danger to this is that when we become so divorced from the romp we can be over taken by basic technique, strength and persistence...its a real balancing act.

Most Ju Jutsu guys don't know about subtle strikes, but it is most definitely part of the art. On the battlefield the fingers fitting under the helmet can be done. With regards to people with violent tendencies, most like to romp a lot and are satisfied knocking each other around the ring...The monks in China had two aspects of Chinese boxing, the external for the violent ones, which was **** **** hit hit...and the internal arts which approached real power and mastery over another. Its just deceptive because it takes a lifetime to master the internal.

[The Old LefHook]

Ill tell you a secret: The worse injuries in martial arts are in the "Gentle arts" the "do" arts... Judo, Karate Do, Aikido... Because people get to romp a bit (not so much Aikido). You always need to romp but as one gets better one aproaches the art clinically. The danger to this is that when we become so divorced from the romp we can be over taken by basic technique, strength and persistence...its a real balancing act.

Most Ju Jutsu guys don't know about subtle strikes, but it is most definitely part of the art. On the battlefield the fingers fitting under the helmet can be done. With regards to people with violent tendencies, most like to romp a lot and are satisfied knocking each other around the ring...The monks in China had two aspects of Chinese boxing, the external for the violent ones, which was **** **** hit hit...and the internal arts which approached real power and mastery over another. Its just deceptive because it takes a lifetime to master the internal.

If you believe there is an internal, that is. People cannot gain mystical powers through practice or meditation. Men do not spank hungry tigers, despite what is written in old books recounting apochryphal events. It is precisely the myth building we see in religion.

Here is a typical example:

A martial arts instructor lining up all his pupils in class and having them push on him at the same time from a long line. Lined up that way they can hardly push harder than one person. If all the pushing force from behind were actually on the first person, their spine would snap from the pressure. It would be like an elephant standing on him.

So it proves exactly nothing, yet martial arts instructors the world over routinely use it to impress novices and keep them paying.

It is the same with Bruce Lee. Where is the proof of his antics? Where is the record revealing psi with his one inch punch? I say these myths work only without proof or any attempt at it.

In the history of this world I never heard of one believable event where mystical powers were involved. As for one man out-meditating another and defeating him through superior meditation (which essentially moves the battleground), I never did buy it. That is for Kung Fu starring David Carradine, and other myth building nonsense that people are perfectly happy to buy without any proof whatsoever.

I acknowledge there are plenty of people who could kill me with one finger alone. You sound like one of them. They did not get that way through meditation. It was physical practice, and none of their abilities exceed what can be gained through physical practice. Because this limit surprises us is no reason to call it a miracle when someone reaches or comes near it.

[billeau2]

If you believe there is an internal, that is. People cannot gain mystical powers through practice or meditation. Men do not spank hungry tigers, despite what is written in old books recounting apochryphal events. It is precisely the myth building we see in religion.

Here is a typical example:

A martial arts instructor lining up all his pupils in class and having them push on him at the same time from a long line. Lined up that way they can hardly push harder than one person. If all the pushing force from behind were actually on the first person, their spine would snap from the pressure. It would be like an elephant standing on him.

So it proves exactly nothing, yet martial arts instructors the world over routinely use it to impress novices and keep them paying.

It is the same with Bruce Lee. Where is the proof of his antics? Where is the record revealing psi with his one inch punch? I say these myths work only without proof or any attempt at it.

In the history of this world I never heard of one believable event where mystical powers were involved. As for one man out-meditating another and defeating him through superior meditation (which essentially moves the battleground), I never did buy it. That is for Kung Fu starring David Carradine, and other myth building nonsense that people are perfectly happy to buy without any proof whatsoever.

I acknowledge there are plenty of people who could kill me with one finger alone. You sound like one of them. They did not get that way through meditation. It was physical practice, and none of their abilities exceed what can be gained through physical practice. Because this limit surprises us is no reason to call it a miracle when someone reaches or comes near it.

Who said anything about mystical powers? I didn't even mention Chi which is a real construction regarding Chinese theory and practice. A guy was with a Chinese master in Hong Kong and the master was driving to a restaurant. The guy wanted to impress...so he told the master to wait a minute as he rolled his hands around and took deep breaths, then he put his hands within an inch of the master and smiled... "Master did you feel any warm energy? I abstained from sex with my lady for a month to develop my Chi!"

The master says "yes." and looks unimpressed at the student and then says to him "I can accomplish the same thing and even for the sake of argument sleep with your girlfriend every night." The student looks confused when master suddenly puts on the defroster at full blast sending waves of warm air everywhere...

The moral of the story aside, the internal arts are not about mystiscism they are about using structure, breath and strengthening core muscles instead of superficial mass and brute stength.

[Anthony342]

Does that mean there's any truth in fighting to there being some kind of "death touch"?