Ali vs. Tyson: out on a fragile limb.

[hemichromis]

hey everyones entitled to their opinion if they happen to be idiots!

[Brassangel]

Originally Posted by Frazier's 15th round
Tyson KO1 Ali. The myth of Ali has been blown so far out of proportion. Ali never really beat anyone special in his career. Foreman was a caveman who anyone could beat simply by staying out of his pathetic swings. Frazier was fat and more concerned with music after he starched Ali the first time, and yet he still deserved the decision in fight two and nearly killed Ali in fight 3. Norton won all 3 times, even Ali admits that. Ali also got lucky breaks and gift decisions over Henry Cooper, Zora Folley, Doug Jones, Sonny Banks, Earnie Shavers (no skills at all), Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young, and Leon Spinks. Tomato can Chuck Wepner nearly knocked Ali out! A motivated Sonny Liston would have dusted off Clay in about 4 rounds. Finally, when paired up with a much better fighter in Larry Holmes, Ali was battered and beaten all over the place until he quit in his corner.

While it's possible that Tyson could have KO'd Ali, I doubt heavily that it would have happened in round 1. Secondly, Ali wasn't given a decision against Folley, he KO'd him. While he was gifted some decisions later in his career, we aren't referring that Muhammad Ali. Perhaps a motivated Liston would have "dusted" Clay, but we didn't get to see that, now did we? Instead, we saw a Clay who put his money where his mouth was, and avoided Liston brilliantly. Not by much, but it was enough. Furthermore, a 38 year old fighter who was reliant upon speed, who had Parkinson's disease, hardly makes for a good match against Larry Holmes; probably another top 5 all-time heavyweight at the top of his game. Remember, speed is usually the first thing to go. Not to mention the brain and the reflexes once someone suffers an illness like the one he wakes up with every morning.

Finally, we are trying to discuss how this matchup would likely be better than most people suggest (on either side of the coin). Frazier gave Ali a marvellous three fights, possibly winning two of them. But it's clear that he didn't win fight three against Ali. Had the fight not been stopped due to Frazier's blindness and cuts, we may have witnessed an in-ring death of one of the sport's greatest heavyweights in Joe Frazier. Ali was destroying him in rounds 12, 13, and 14. Ali also won rounds 1-4, and 7 if I'm not mistaken. That's about 8-6 in Ali's favor, with Frazier clearly taking more punishment towards the end.

Now, I apologize if my earlier comment seemed rude, or childish towards SABBATH. I guess I was frustrated that I couldn't put my fiction writing skills to good use by writing a fantasy fight series to follow up the Ali poem due to the number of flames going back and fourth. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

[Frazier's 15th round]

Ali also won rounds 1-4, and 7 if I'm not mistaken. That's about 8-6 in Ali's favor

I give Frazier round 3, and rounds 7, 8, and 11 are very close, and can go either way.

[butterfly1964]

Tyson KO1 Ali.

Muhammad Ali UD15 Ernie Terrel.(ali winning all 15 rounds.)

[Brassangel]

I wondered how long it would take for butterfly to come on here and make something silly out of this thread.

[Southpaw Stinger]

hey everyones entitled to their opinion if they happen to be idiots!

Fraziers15thround shouldn't be allowed to have his own oppinion, he shouldn't even be allowed to vote in any election.
He should just stay locked in his room and talk to his pet socks for the rest of his life.

[Frazier's 15th round]

Says the guy with two criminally overrated fighters in his profile. 'Padded record' Foreman and 'overrated since 1980' LaMotta.

[Heckler]

While it's possible that Tyson could have KO'd Ali, I doubt heavily that it would have happened in round 1. Secondly, Ali wasn't given a decision against Folley, he KO'd him. While he was gifted some decisions later in his career, we aren't referring that Muhammad Ali. Perhaps a motivated Liston would have "dusted" Clay, but we didn't get to see that, now did we? Instead, we saw a Clay who put his money where his mouth was, and avoided Liston brilliantly. Not by much, but it was enough. Furthermore, a 38 year old fighter who was reliant upon speed, who had Parkinson's disease, hardly makes for a good match against Larry Holmes; probably another top 5 all-time heavyweight at the top of his game. Remember, speed is usually the first thing to go. Not to mention the brain and the reflexes once someone suffers an illness like the one he wakes up with every morning.

Finally, we are trying to discuss how this matchup would likely be better than most people suggest (on either side of the coin). Frazier gave Ali a marvellous three fights, possibly winning two of them. But it's clear that he didn't win fight three against Ali. Had the fight not been stopped due to Frazier's blindness and cuts, we may have witnessed an in-ring death of one of the sport's greatest heavyweights in Joe Frazier. Ali was destroying him in rounds 12, 13, and 14. Ali also won rounds 1-4, and 7 if I'm not mistaken. That's about 8-6 in Ali's favor, with Frazier clearly taking more punishment towards the end.

Now, I apologize if my earlier comment seemed rude, or childish towards SABBATH. I guess I was frustrated that I couldn't put my fiction writing skills to good use by writing a fantasy fight series to follow up the Ali poem due to the number of flames going back and fourth. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

I think Ali won the second fight against Frazier rather clearly, even critics of Ali tend to admit he won.

Ali won the second fight against Norton and Frazier15thround if you bothered to do your own research instead of blindly believing those whom perpetuate such stories in order to discredit Ali's achievements you would find that Ali won the fight against Doug Jones... learn to ****en score a fight, better yet watch the fight. Ali beat Ron Lyle, 20 odd unanswered punches to the head... its boxing, not streetfighting and Ali gave the ref the oppurtunity to stop the fight and he did. He was robbed against Zora Folley? He ko'd him? Chuck Wepner nearly knocked him out? he didn't even come close. Sonny Banks was robbed? Sonny Banks was knocked out? George Foreman was a caveman? mmmm that sounds like something straight from Monte's joke anti-ali writings... infact it is. Instead of being a raging, uninformed ****** why don't you actually watch these fights?

I will acknowledge Ali was beaten by Jimmy Young, Ali was beaten by Norton in the 3rd match, Earnie shavers deserved a draw at the least. The fact that you blindly believe anything Anti-Ali. because it suits your agenda is both funny and sad.

Im guessing you will claim that this was a mere Joke. I think being the deluded little ****** you are you sincerely believe this ****.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Says the guy with two criminally overrated fighters in his profile. 'Padded record' Foreman and 'overrated since 1980' LaMotta.

According to you every fighter is overated so it's not like anyone takes you seriously.

[Keleneki]

What a great thread. While I tend to favor Ali, some of the pro Tyson posts are very thought provoking. I do recollect thinking many times, from after the Berbick fight until after the Spinks fight, who in the past, present or future would stand a chance against this dynamo? He sure appeared unstoppable to me during those few years. Those were definitely some thrilling times.

During the Holmes fight, right before the end, I actually thought that Holmes was shaking off that rust and that he was going to outbox Tyson. And I actually thought that Spinks' herky-jerky style was going to confuse Tyson and he was going to outbox him for the UD. o_O