Steadfast opinions and Interests

[The Old LefHook]

The majority of activity here of late seems to stem from member's holding deep-rooted opinions on particular subjects.

This is not always a negative. I've spent some time thinking if I myself hold any opinions that almost regardless of discussion I would not alter.

In the bigger boxing landscape there are plenty, but on a specific issue I really can't think of one.

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So I have two questions, firstly, do you have an opinion that you do not believe anybody could persuade you from?

Secondly, is there one topic that you hope somebody addresses over the next twelve months?

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To answer first, mine would be a detailed look at Roy Jones Jr's career, in particular the period after he signed a contract with HBO.

Of interest would be potential opponents, business aspects with regards to opponents and career trajectories of those fighters.

Great boxers need many qualities, but above all they need a great chin. Look at any reasonable list of ATG's and one cannot help but notice that they all had fantastic chins. They did not all have great lefjabs or lefhooks or right crosses or uppercuts, but they all had great chins. They did not all have great footwork, but they had great chins. If they didn't, they are probably not ATG's. Good stamina is a necessary companion to a good chin which is well abused.

So it turns out ot be chin and stamina rather than technique power or speed that an ATG cannot get along without. It seems to me that should not be so surprising in a sport like boxing, but the belief gets a lot of disagreement.

Obviously, an ATG must have more than one excellent attribute. So if a boxer is a dud in every department but stamina, he has no future. If he has decent skills and an ATG chin, he may have a career in spite of being average in many other departments. But if he has a great skills and a glass chin, he is probably going to need another career.

A chin cannot function by itself. Still, I consider it the most important attribute a pro boxer can possess.

The reason for it all is because ATG's are the in the business of finding their opponents with their punches. No matter who you are, other ATG's will find you with punches. Boxers without superior chins almost never make it high on my lists, because I believe they will be found by other ATG's.

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What would I like to see addressed? That is an excellent question. It forces me to think hard about it. Well, I am interested in sports science and statistics. I am too busy with other projects to make long lists and data sets myself, but I would enjoy seeing someone else do it, someone who really understands the art and does not then make wild interpretations. I don't know how much such a project could unravel and expose. There are some things we can never know in this life and settlement of the old timer vs modern controversy is probably one of them. Still, I quite enjoy good investigations into this old matter.

[sonnyboyx2]

That doesn't change the fact that Duran quit like a dog. It wasn't Leonard's fault that he didn't train like a professional. Of course you always have a handy excuse to justify anything to fit your agenda.

Duran obviously DID train like a professional, as he made the fight weight limit of 147lbs coming down from 190lbs. However Duran did not "Quit like a dog" as you imply.. He quit due to Stomach cramp. was his explanation. Duran then returned to win world titles in 2 more weight divisions, as well as lose a razor thin decision to Marvin Hagler, over 15rds. Which again prove just how great a professional he was. But this is a typical comment from you, directed at one of "Boxing's All Time Greats". You enjoy trying to rubbish the career's of fighters like Roberto Duran & Mike Tyson, because you are jealous and envious of them. You dislike them because they are "Tough Guys" unlike what you are, which is a skinny little mummy's boy. Who lives with his mummy and works night-shift down at the local public toilet glory hole.

[robertzimmerman]

You probably also know the influence Roy's father has on his career. In a piece written in Sports Illustrated it was revealed that his dad managed Roy in a fashion where he took the path of least resistance.

Yes, Big Roy turned him into a fighting machine, yet wouldn't let him fight anyone of significance, even going to the lengths of hiding title fight opportunities from him. That's why Roy split with him 1992. They then didn't speak to each other for 6 years until Big Roy stepped in and said he wouldn't allow Roy to fight Buster Douglas. But apart from those early days and that one point in 1998, Roy has been his own man.

Roy didn't ever take the path of least resistance. It's a complete myth.

[IMDAZED]

Good thread and to answer your question, I think Roy Jones Jr. went on to have an ATG career after signing on with HBO.

I mean, can anyone say smanything different? What a great fighter he was. A lot of people point to Bernard Hopkins being green when Jones beat him but he didn't lose for another 12 years (and that's debatable) and went on to have an ATG career himself. Beating a peak Toney in one-sided fashion is remarkable. He unfied all three titles at 175 and made countless defenses while holding it for about six years. And also beat a top tier HW in the process. Roy Jones was and is an ATG.

[Scott9945]

Duran obviously DID train like a professional, as he made the fight weight limit of 147lbs coming down from 190lbs. However Duran did not "Quit like a dog" as you imply.. He quit due to Stomach cramp. was his explanation. Duran then returned to win world titles in 2 more weight divisions, as well as lose a razor thin decision to Marvin Hagler, over 15rds. Which again prove just how great a professional he was. But this is a typical comment from you, directed at one of "Boxing's All Time Greats". You enjoy trying to rubbish the career's of fighters like Roberto Duran & Mike Tyson, because you are jealous and envious of them. You dislike them because they are "Tough Guys" unlike what you are, which is a skinny little mummy's boy. Who lives with his mummy and works night-shift down at the local public toilet glory hole.

Apparently you compensate for your own lack of testosterone by worshipping tough guy fighters like Tyson and Duran. I respect them for their obvious talent, but hero worship by adults disgusts me.

Duran had stomach cramps and a few other excuses which he never bothered to repeat. He got too fat between the Leonard fights and his training was basically a fat camp to drop weight. He had a brilliant career before that fight and an amazing one after that. I just refuse to call his surrender against Leonard anything but what it really was.

And nothing I said required the multiple insults that you felt compelled to include. That is a textbook example of what a classic troll you really are.

Making references to my late mother and questioning my sexuality?

[rightsideup]

i do not disagree with you Scott but Leonard seemed to set his opponents up in prefight distractions he did so with Duran both in Montreal and new Orleans Duran was in tip top shape for Montreal but was set up to take a battery of physical tests until Carlos elta brought in his own doctor to end the BS tests.in no way do i endorse durans lack of professional preparation for new Orleans but in spite of denials from Arcel and to some extent Elta who tried to have the fight postponed he should never entered the ring in that condition against sugar ray Leonard. ray also set up hagler in similar fashion. great fighter but equally great in creating his own opportunities .

[sonnyboyx2]

Apparently you compensate for your own lack of testosterone by worshipping tough guy fighters like Tyson and Duran. I respect them for their obvious talent, but hero worship by adults disgusts me.

Duran had stomach cramps and a few other excuses which he never bothered to repeat. He got too fat between the Leonard fights and his training was basically a fat camp to drop weight. He had a brilliant career before that fight and an amazing one after that. I just refuse to call his surrender against Leonard anything but what it really was.

And nothing I said required the multiple insults that you felt compelled to include. That is a textbook example of what a classic troll you really are.

Making references to my late mother and questioning my sexuality?

Do i really look like i "Lack Testosterone or Toughness"?... ive obviously hit the nail on the head here with you eh :blow:

[billeau2]

Do i really look like i "Lack Testosterone or Toughness"?... ive obviously hit the nail on the head here with you eh :blow:

I just have to ask you: Yu don't see any hypocracy when you call others out for being trolls and then respond to all posts with insults? You really don't see this? because it makes you look horrendous...the guy just said you insulted his late mother... I bet you would not do that to a person's face... I don't know if you would btw, but I bet you wouldn't.

[Scott9945]

Do i really look like i "Lack Testosterone or Toughness"?... ive obviously hit the nail on the head here with you eh :blow:

Not if you're Evander Holyfield.

If I was forced to say one good thing about Elroy, it would be that he is a better human than you. Admittedly not a great compliment to him. You are the bottom of the barrel.

[Elroy1]

Not if you're Evander Holyfield.

If I was forced to say one good thing about Elroy, it would be that he is a better human than you. Admittedly not a great compliment to him. You are the bottom of the barrel.

In reality me and Sonny are better people than ANY nut bag.

The reasoning is simple, even you could understand it Scott.

There is the unmistakable tactic of the nut bag, which you have just employed and Bill uses prolifically to "divide and conquer" like police officers do when they seperate suspects.

You try to say things like "as bad as x is, he is better than YOU because (some abstract reason)..

You want to pit your enemies against each other and create ill feeling between them is the goal to further your own station.

In reality, the charade is so transparent and SO ****** that nobody could ever swallow such garbage!

A nut bag is the lowest of the low.. because you have totally conceded all of your human qualities and basically operate like a drone.

Keep droning Scott!