Ali vs Wilt

[Elroy1]

Wow!! If that doesn't show how ******...what a ****** thing to say. Peter Fury is flat out wrong? You know how long he has been a trainer? And for the record it was all in the footwork. Fury fought off his back leg, he gave Vlad his profile, not squaring up like everyone else does these days, he threw his jab and follow ups while coming in. This fight was all about distance and range and skillful footwork.

Fury shut down Klit by feinting everytime klit set...and then moving everytime Klit set so klit could not set to throw his punches...WATCH THE FIGHT AGAIN!!

Are you allergic to learning somethng? Fury gave a lesson in timing and among other things how to use a feint to keep a man off balance.

Size/reach/weight was immensely important, you totally neglect, as ALL nut bags MUST do, half the story.

Without his skills, Fury could not have beaten Klitschko with just his size, as evidenced by Klitschko wasting already larger opponents than himself without such skill.

Conversely, without his SIZE, Fury could not have beaten Klitschko with just his skills alone, as evidenced by Klitschko defeating every opponent who moves better and is faster/more skillful than Fury.

Obviously it's the combination, the total package that was Fury, was greater than the total package that was Klitschko.

This "MP Theory" or Total picture analysis is the hallmark of what I promote and the "narrow vision picture" or "OTNB mythology" which has no clearly defined theory at all is exactly what you and your friends stand for.

OF COURSE I don't neglect other factors, I just look at the complete picture, not that which only serves your agenda.

And again, it's easy to see why you wouldn't, because if you only would admit how important size WAS in this fight for Tyson Fury, and in all other fights also, whether it turned the tide or not, then you would have HARDLY ANYTHING TO SAY in support of your ancient favourites.

You know it.

I know it!

Wladimir himself declares that his REACH was one of the main things giving him problems, he couldn't bridge the gap.

[McGoorty]

WILT ,.................. no there's an unfortunate name for someone who would have been under more pressure than he ever imagined.

[billeau2]

Size/reach/weight was immensely important, you totally neglect, as ALL nut bags MUST do, half the story.

Without his skills, Fury could not have beaten Klitschko with just his size, as evidenced by Klitschko wasting already larger opponents than himself without such skill.

Conversely, without his SIZE, Fury could not have beaten Klitschko with just his skills alone, as evidenced by Klitschko defeating every opponent who moves better and is faster/more skillful than Fury.

Obviously it's the combination, the total package that was Fury, was greater than the total package that was Klitschko.

This "MP Theory" or Total picture analysis is the hallmark of what I promote and the "narrow vision picture" or "OTNB mythology" which has no clearly defined theory at all is exactly what you and your friends stand for.

OF COURSE I don't neglect other factors, I just look at the complete picture, not that which only serves your agenda.

And again, it's easy to see why you wouldn't, because if you only would admit how important size WAS in this fight for Tyson Fury, and in all other fights also, whether it turned the tide or not, then you would have HARDLY ANYTHING TO SAY in support of your ancient favourites.

You know it.

I know it!

Wladimir himself declares that his REACH was one of the main things giving him problems, he couldn't bridge the gap.

Please...the last thing you should be doing is telling someone what they know considering. This conversation did not even involve ancients did it? If you watch the fight its very clear what Fury did. Its on tape. Look at it why don't you?

[Ray Corso]

Size with reach always plays a part in any boxing match.
The extra length has advantage on the outside the lesser length should be better in close.
However if the skill basse isn't there the advantages don't mean much. Wlad struggled with Tysons length because he didn't knw how to bridge the problem. His corner begged him to "catch and step in" but he didn't do it because he was afraid of the possible counter. Theres no other explanation to it, I watched the encounter. Fury was more awkward as opposed to a fluid mover, his right hands were wild and sloppy too.
Fury had a slight height advantage however when he looked to land he was leaning in about 70% of the time. That deminishes his height by 6 to 10 inches and if Wlad punched "with him" he would have fared well. Ofcourse Wlad doesn't like to punch with anyone even a light handed fellow like Tyson.

Not much of a fight, the out come was because lateral movement and good head movement made a one dimentional guy constantly reset his feet and he couldn't pull the trigger. Wlad in many aspects reminds me of "old" George Foreman. His jab and right hand aren't as good as George but it will get the job done if he can step close and let it go. Movement stopped Wlad in his tracks, sort of like Morrison vs Foreman, keep moving throw some junk out there and don't stand in front. Boring fight, boring fighters limited skill sets!

Ray


..........it's nice to see elroid playing nicely.............

[Joe Beamish]

I know people who knew Wilt well. He definitely did not have a fighter's personality. He avoided fights when he could. He absorbed extra punishment in the NBA because he knew could kill somebody if he retaliated, which he rarely did. Never even fouled out of an NBA game. He truly was a "gentle giant."

With his extraordinary athletic ability, size and strength, perhaps he could have trained in his youth to become a great boxer. However, history shows that this requires a certain personality -- especially when fueled by a kind of hardship that didn't characterize Wilt's upbringing.

Could Wilt have defeated Ali? No way. Not unless you put someone else's brain in that body and trained it for a couple years. Then maybe.

There's never been a fighter who had Wilt's size, strength and agility -- and this also applies to a number of NBA players past and present. The greatest supersize athletes just haven't been boxers.

[billeau2]

Size with reach always plays a part in any boxing match.
The extra length has advantage on the outside the lesser length should be better in close.
However if the skill basse isn't there the advantages don't mean much. Wlad struggled with Tysons length because he didn't knw how to bridge the problem. His corner begged him to "catch and step in" but he didn't do it because he was afraid of the possible counter. Theres no other explanation to it, I watched the encounter. Fury was more awkward as opposed to a fluid mover, his right hands were wild and sloppy too.
Fury had a slight height advantage however when he looked to land he was leaning in about 70% of the time. That deminishes his height by 6 to 10 inches and if Wlad punched "with him" he would have fared well. Ofcourse Wlad doesn't like to punch with anyone even a light handed fellow like Tyson.

Not much of a fight, the out come was because lateral movement and good head movement made a one dimentional guy constantly reset his feet and he couldn't pull the trigger. Wlad in many aspects reminds me of "old" George Foreman. His jab and right hand aren't as good as George but it will get the job done if he can step close and let it go. Movement stopped Wlad in his tracks, sort of like Morrison vs Foreman, keep moving throw some junk out there and don't stand in front. Boring fight, boring fighters limited skill sets!

Ray


..........it's nice to see elroid playing nicely.............

Regarding Fury's skill next to Vlad Flinchko's...In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king! Gypsy king!

[The Old LefHook]

So far, our boxing gentry of seasoned observers, trainers and writers sees it as a shutout for Ali against Wilt.

A rabble of junior observers still insists giantine proportions will out, however.

All giants use their length to advantage. They lean with their punches to deny the opponent contact. That is simply the way of half-trained tall against trained short.

The wade forward giant is yet unseen. Even Wilder has no aggression to compare with the likes of an Ibeabuchi. The wade forward gaint may come close to a contradiction in boxing terms.

A monster should be able to plow forward through anyone, satisfying all primal urges of the audience. Yet, for the reign of Tyson Fury fans must now consent to a further dredging of excitment from the sport.

[titanium]

Chamberlain was a basketball player. If he tried boxing he would have been beaten by some 500% journeyman who was barely 6 feet tall.

[juggernaut666]

I know people who knew Wilt well. He definitely did not have a fighter's personality. He avoided fights when he could. He absorbed extra punishment in the NBA because he knew could kill somebody if he retaliated, which he rarely did. Never even fouled out of an NBA game. He truly was a "gentle giant."

With his extraordinary athletic ability, size and strength, perhaps he could have trained in his youth to become a great boxer. However, history shows that this requires a certain personality -- especially when fueled by a kind of hardship that didn't characterize Wilt's upbringing.

Could Wilt have defeated Ali? No way. Not unless you put someone else's brain in that body and trained it for a couple years. Then maybe.

There's never been a fighter who had Wilt's size, strength and agility -- and this also applies to a number of NBA players past and present. The greatest supersize athletes just haven't been boxers.

history shows that this requires a certain personality -- So are you saying Cus who imop was the smartest trainer in history was clueless of Wilt making a championship run quickly in the 60's? The same Cus who saw Tyson for one minute and said that was the next champion even at age 13/15 because he saw what he had to wok with?


1960's boxers < 1980's boxers

[rightsideup]

history shows that this requires a certain personality -- So are you saying Cus who imop was the smartest trainer in history was clueless of Wilt making a championship run quickly in the 60's? The same Cus who saw Tyson for one minute and said that was the next champion even at age 13/15 because he saw what he had to wok with?


1960's boxers < 1980's boxers

cus was also suppose to guide mulitime world handball champ Jim Jacobs to a fight with Archie Moore and nothing became of that