Ali vs Wilt

[juggernaut666]

Wasn't Dillman the guy was was big on pressure point fighting or something? I remember reading about him in Black Belt. People were saying that if his style was as effective as he claimed, he should have entered a UFC tournament at the time.

Not everyone is susceptible to pressure points ,getting trained fighters who are ready to go at you and apply them isnt likely to happen.

I can tell you first hand they certainly work if someone credible applies them to unsuspecting toughs such as bar fights!


Ive also trained with Sonny Newman one of the best pressure point guys on the planet briefly out of Tennesse ! HW Fringe journeyman Owen Beck was there too ...,good times !

[NChristo]

Yeah, but it's still a pro sport. And yes, that will be his biggest fight, but Wilder will be big as well. Oh yeah and Bleacher Report today mentioned Fury possibly being stripped if he doesn't fight Haye next: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ampaign=boxing

Bleacher is full of **** and always has been

[billeau2]

Peter Fury was flat out wrong about that! He has said some good true things lately but that was not one of them..

Size/Reach/Weight was EXACTLY half the story of Tyson's victory! Without it, he couldn't have pulled it regardless of his skills.

Wow!! If that doesn't show how ******...what a ****** thing to say. Peter Fury is flat out wrong? You know how long he has been a trainer? And for the record it was all in the footwork. Fury fought off his back leg, he gave Vlad his profile, not squaring up like everyone else does these days, he threw his jab and follow ups while coming in. This fight was all about distance and range and skillful footwork.

Fury shut down Klit by feinting everytime klit set...and then moving everytime Klit set so klit could not set to throw his punches...WATCH THE FIGHT AGAIN!!

Are you allergic to learning somethng? Fury gave a lesson in timing and among other things how to use a feint to keep a man off balance.

[billeau2]

Timing the distance is all Wlad needs to do ,if anything be more aggressive .....what he basically has is a well schooled giant with huge reach .I dont buy into it for one second on one fight that Fury has figured him out ,if Wlad goes at him it will be a different outcome the last rnd showed that ,he simply has to fight from the opening bell....will he is another question ?

The problem for Vlad is that he really has to set his feet to throw his shots. He also cannot step as he throws a punch. He just uses his reach to bring the jab foward. It works well when guys are somewhat stationary, but when a guy can time it so that everytime you set up to throw, he feints, or moves, or....even (as Fury did) comes towards you, smothering you...its a real problem.

In my opinion I don't think Vlad can overcome this, but one never knows juggy, its possible, he might be able to do something like disguise when he is setting, or feint a jab and then double up... But its a real coordination problem to overcome!

Reminds me of the time this old ***ish guy came up to me and my son in NYC...he was a nice guy and apparently he was a neuro scientist. He just wanted to chew the fat and saw my kid so he asked us to try this exerscize where you try to move your arms in circles at the same time in opposite directions. His point was that through bilateral symetry we have to really train the brain to do something like this...I still work on this!!! it just feels so unnatural and takes such concentration.

This is a great analogy for how Vlad would have to really get his feet moving so that when he landed the foot was grounded, and the blow was utelegraphed.

[billeau2]

Wasn't Dillman the guy was was big on pressure point fighting or something? I remember reading about him in Black Belt. People were saying that if his style was as effective as he claimed, he should have entered a UFC tournament at the time.

Unfortunately Dillman went "tootsiepatz!" before he got into deciphering kata and pretending that Okinawan fighting men were all Chinese medical doctors with secret anatomical understandings, he was a decent karate practicioner. Ali knew him because Dillman would come to Ali's camps during training. Dillman actually came up with some creative isights into certain root Okinawan karate forms...but like most, he learned a little and thought he learned a lot. His methods of hitting points have been pretty thoroughly debunked.

The biggest problem with pressure points is that they are unreliable. If we take Japanese armour and see that there are natural seams where the body has to articulate, we can see why those areas are targeted...nothing mystical about it. I know that if I catch you under your arm on a swordpass, you have a hole there because you need to move your arm...unfortunately its also where your brachial artery is... When one takes targeting a step farther and postulates that a chain reaction can occur hitting certain points in a certain sequence...usually what one sees is one who is under the power of suggestion and/or, the last point hit...like at the base of your skull is described as being "lightly tapped' when in fact the hand is brought down with a lot of force, hence the "light tap" that caused the KO.

So thats where Dillman is at these days. i would be more respectful but for the fact that his woo woo has been thoroughly debunked and is little more than the chi master who challenged the mma fighter...you saw that vid right? is not let me know!

[juggernaut666]

The problem for Vlad is that he really has to set his feet to throw his shots. He also cannot step as he throws a punch. He just uses his reach to bring the jab foward. It works well when guys are somewhat stationary, but when a guy can time it so that everytime you set up to throw, he feints, or moves, or....even (as Fury did) comes towards you, smothering you...its a real problem.

In my opinion I don't think Vlad can overcome this, but one never knows juggy, its possible, he might be able to do something like disguise when he is setting, or feint a jab and then double up... But its a real coordination problem to overcome!

Reminds me of the time this old ***ish guy came up to me and my son in NYC...he was a nice guy and apparently he was a neuro scientist. He just wanted to chew the fat and saw my kid so he asked us to try this exerscize where you try to move your arms in circles at the same time in opposite directions. His point was that through bilateral symetry we have to really train the brain to do something like this...I still work on this!!! it just feels so unnatural and takes such concentration.

This is a great analogy for how Vlad would have to really get his feet moving so that when he landed the foot was grounded, and the blow was utelegraphed.

I think all top guys other than Povetkin due to reach disadvantage pose different problems for Wlad...I still think Fury needs to win again based on wlads low punch count,cant see Fury that good that Wlad only throws 4 jabs a minute and one power shot...is this age? Maybe ,he froze a lot,if the old Wlad of early 200o's come out I have a feeling it will be different,as this will be won on offense not defense...I don't believe fury has the power to stop Wlad early.

[billeau2]

I think all top guys other than Povetkin due to reach disadvantage pose different problems for Wlad...I still think Fury needs to win again based on wlads low punch count,cant see Fury that good that Wlad only throws 4 jabs a minute and one power shot...is this age? Maybe ,he froze a lot,if the old Wlad of early 200o's come out I have a feeling it will be different,as this will be won on offense not defense...I don't believe fury has the power to stop Wlad early.

The low punch count is indeed a major factor. The reason why this happened to Vlad is partially due to fury but for sure, Vlad should be able to increase his punch count.

[Scott9945]

Um, I hardly think a fighter with what, 10 victories in a basically amateur sport losing to a similarly versed fighter ranks as comparable.

We're talking a guy who did questionably nothing prior to winning (like Fury and Douglas) defeated a guy who was considered basically invincible (like Wladimir and Mike).

The size of an upset is measured by the betting odds. There is a fact that the Rousey fight was a bigger upset. UFC is a billion dollar business (amateur? ) which goes through the same athletic commissions as boxing does.

Rousey had destroyed every opponent she had faced. Klitschko is 39 with almost 70 fights, which certainly made him less than invincible.

[sonnyboyx2]

The size of an upset is measured by the betting odds. There is a fact that the Rousey fight was a bigger upset. UFC is a billion dollar business (amateur? ) which goes through the same athletic commissions as boxing does.

Rousey had destroyed every opponent she had faced. Klitschko is 39 with almost 70 fights, which certainly made him less than invincible.

talking of Betting Odds... Here in the UK just before the opening bell, the betting odds were Klitschko 2/9 Fury 5/1... The in-play odds at the start of round 8 were Klitschko 8/1 Fury 1/14

[Elroy1]

Not everyone is susceptible to pressure points ,getting trained fighters who are ready to go at you and apply them isnt likely to happen.

I can tell you first hand they certainly work if someone credible applies them to unsuspecting toughs such as bar fights!


Ive also trained with Sonny Newman one of the best pressure point guys on the planet briefly out of Tennesse ! HW Fringe journeyman Owen Beck was there too ...,good times !

On the pressure points thing, my old club also held BJJ Tues and Thurs nights. I took some classes there and the coach, great guy, 5'9"ish but 90kgs or so but had the strength of a far larger man, like an oxen, he told me that the "pressure points" were effective but only if they are very strongly handled and that very strongly built up people they were less effective on. He felt they were more pressure points if they were struck very heavily (or crush points in the case of a much stronger man getting at them).

I guess this is how he served to validate his art somewhat which involves many joint locks and wrestling as opposed to more finer martial art skills.