Who was faster Tyson or Ali?

[oscar9992]

Yes, I am not denying Muhammad Ali was fast.

In fact I would judge he was the fastest 210lber upto the 1970's (until the flowering of Larry Holmes). Anybody quicker previously, was also much lighter!

But this alone makes it meaningless to compare his speed to a superheavyweights speed. OF COURSE Ali is going to be faster than that!

Against Tyson it's straight forward clear from video evidence that Ali is much slower of hand and body, as well as far less precise, technical and reactive than Tyson.

Take Muhammad Ali, make him 6'9" and 260lbs, paint him white and you have Tyson Fury!

That's most bull**** written I have ever seen. Ali is miles above Fury in everything.

Tyson is SO OVERRATED. Holyfield and Lewis showed him his place.
Mike can't hang with elite smart boxers like Holyfield, Lewis etc. who can take a punch, period!

[boxingnut712]

That's most bull**** written I have ever seen. Ali is miles above Fury in everything.

Tyson is SO OVERRATED. Holyfield and Lewis showed him his place.
Mike can't hang with elite smart boxers like Holyfield, Lewis etc. who can take a punch, period!

Well said. Tyson was knocked out in sparring by Oliver McCall, and later knocked out by James Buster Douglas before the words Lewis, or Holyfield come into play.

[Elroy1]

That's most bull**** written I have ever seen. Ali is miles above Fury in everything.

Tyson is SO OVERRATED. Holyfield and Lewis showed him his place.
Mike can't hang with elite smart boxers like Holyfield, Lewis etc. who can take a punch, period!

Lewis beat a heftier Tyson but one who was mainly a slugger by that time. He DID win the first round but no longer had the stamina to keep such work up to deter LEnnox.

Could younger Tyson have beaten LEnnox? I'm in the camp that said no. However at the time Tyson was prime in the 80's he could have beaten the THEN Lennox who was much lighter/weaker and was asically amateur.

Holyfield? His wins over Tyson DEFINE him really. Could 80's Holyfield have beaten 80's Tyson? Definitely not. Could 90's Holyfield have beaten 80's TYson? That's a VERY open question! And many would side with Tyson to be sure!!

Tyson is a top tier fighter no matter how you slice it. He was, quote "absolutely awesome".

On Tyson Fury and Ali?

They are EXACTLY comparable in skills and style. The only difference being skin colour and size.

In no areas is Ali better, he is simply a piss weak version of Fury, right down to the wind maker punches and the big loud mouth!

Get used to that idea.

The MAIN reason nut bags cheer for Fury is cause they cheer for a modern day Ali!

Difference is, Wlad ain't no useless Foreman! LOL

[boxingnut712]

Lewis beat a heftier Tyson but one who was mainly a slugger by that time. He DID win the first round but no longer had the stamina to keep such work up to deter LEnnox.

Could younger Tyson have beaten LEnnox? I'm in the camp that said no. However at the time Tyson was prime in the 80's he could have beaten the THEN Lennox who was much lighter/weaker and was asically amateur.

Holyfield? His wins over Tyson DEFINE him really. Could 80's Holyfield have beaten 80's Tyson? Definitely not. Could 90's Holyfield have beaten 80's TYson? That's a VERY open question! And many would side with Tyson to be sure!!

Tyson is a top tier fighter no matter how you slice it. He was, quote "absolutely awesome".

On Tyson Fury and Ali?

They are EXACTLY comparable in skills and style. The only difference being skin colour and size.

In no areas is Ali better, he is simply a piss weak version of Fury, right down to the wind maker punches and the big loud mouth!

Get used to that idea.

The MAIN reason nut bags cheer for Fury is cause they cheer for a modern day Ali!

Difference is, Wlad ain't no useless Foreman! LOL

Look Tyson beat people by having them scared out of their wits by fight time. To answer your other question about Lennox Lewis, I seem to recall team Tyson kicking Lennox Lewis out of their sparring sessions in training camp.

Buster Douglas beat Tyson because he was not afraid, and was extra motivated. Oliver McCall knocked Tyson out with one punch in sparring. I think Tyson is over rated.

[billeau2]

Punch speed is not generated from your arms only, in fact, it has more to do with your lower body (legs, core) than it does your arms. Punches are generated from the ground up, a bunch of tiny auxillary muscles, coupled with larger core muscles all have to fire off in an explosive and timed manner to generate that speed and power. So in short..... more dead weight = more mass to move , more work on the muscles to move it, more time required to create momentum = slower overall movements! Be it hands, feet or any other movement, it is irrelevant! the extra weight (dead weight) makes everything slower.And Tyson at 215 was a fit as any boxer in history much more lean muscle than ALI COULD DREAM OF HAVING,while stayng fast at 220 pounds.

I reposted the above if you missed it......and did so to reinforce the importance of weight being a factor in speed. It flew over Idiot corsos head which is common around here!

Tyson explosive traveled at a further distance than Alis as style wise would prove that as well not just what reach they had...despite what idiot Corso THINKS....in the end motion and style decide how fast a punch travels and Tyson wins here,because we are measuring who lands the punch first,not why it lands with BOTh guys in there zone one from long distance and short, Tysons ability to be more explosive clearly is the faster and generate from the legs upward is like a rocket ,for him to land 5 punches in 1 second is all one needs to see.

When one turns speed into quickness he/she learns how to use the body, it has nothing much to do with the arm as an isolated movement.
Tyson and Ali represent two types of method involving turning speed into quickness... Depending on where one counts the origination of the punch will determine how far a punch travels...if one wants an objective measurement.

All proper body dynamics figure into developing quickness from speed, I listed some of the more important variables. I don't see winners so much as different techniques. Comparing the way Tyson and Ali generate speed one can see they are very diffrent approaches and...any precise measurement would have to consider where the punch starts and stops...this isn't impossible to do, but it would not be an easy thing to do.

Understand also that there is a "rate" of speed....A Mas Oyama reverse punch was like a train, a Dog Brothers stick strike to the head is like a whip... which one has a faster rate of speed? It can be measured, just as the rate a Tyson punch travels versus an Ali punch could be measured, but think about it... the actual rate the punch goes is not singularly what made Ali or Tyson quick yes? You said it yourself...its the body...its the ability of the man to land that blow with force...its the ability not to telegraph the blow... and many other developments that make throwing a punch so it will land not simply a pimp slap with a wind up.

personally I don't see the rate of speed being a primary consideration, thats an opinion I hold, not a fact. There were probably guys who could thow a reverse punch a lot faster than Oyama, but... Oyama taught methods that allowed that punch to arrive to target with a lot of force....I use Oyama as an example because as you know martial arts also deals with issues of speed, force and technique and... it can pull you and Ray out of just looking at this issue with two guys.

Finally, if one sits back and considers all the things that have to happen for a punch to land on target, and all the little things that can devistate the force with which a punch lands...one can surmise that a lot of quickness involves getting that punch to target without the other guy expecting it. How much of this skill has to do with the pure rate the punch travels? Its a question worth pondering.

[billeau2]

Ali was a lot more faster.

Just look how he KO'ed Liston. That punch can seen only from Slow Motion replay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz0549aTQmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prxnGjKjxoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFA3DFFavwk

Ali also had much better reflexes than Tyson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhpZoPOfZI

Reflexes can be measured. thats a fact. Ted Williams as a boy used to play with his father's saber which his old man had in the second world war. This gave Williams strong wrists....But what made Williams one of the best natural hitters ever was his visual accuity and reflexes...you or I would have a tremendous advantage with speed of whipping the bat around if a Nolan Ryan fastball looked like a g****fruit!


With Ali and Tyson the actual speed of the punches has many variables which I mentioned in a previous post. Ali did have incredible reflexes...I don't know about Tyson's reflexes frankly.

[billeau2]

Let's say this bet is on then. I wager 170 million on Klit to give Fury a big tuning. Put it in your book at the bottom of your page.

I have to take care of Welty first...I will bet you what is left, I have to ask welty he seems to know how it works. meant to get back to you but got real busy yesterday!

[jiopsi]

Taken from Tillis-Tyson exhibition.



60fps video, slowed down 2.4x, times counted with Virtualdub.

Time Punch (Tyson)

0.283s 1st
0,183s 2nd
0,183s 3rd
0,200s 4th
0,850s 4 punches

Obviously times differ how you're calculating start and end of the punch. Seems to me he can sustain about 0,183 second punches, and the punch that staggered Tillis at the end was 1/5 s.

[juggernaut666]

When one turns speed into quickness he/she learns how to use the body, it has nothing much to do with the arm as an isolated movement.
Tyson and Ali represent two types of method involving turning speed into quickness... Depending on where one counts the origination of the punch will determine how far a punch travels...if one wants an objective measurement.

All proper body dynamics figure into developing quickness from speed, I listed some of the more important variables. I don't see winners so much as different techniques. Comparing the way Tyson and Ali generate speed one can see they are very diffrent approaches and...any precise measurement would have to consider where the punch starts and stops...this isn't impossible to do, but it would not be an easy thing to do.

Understand also that there is a "rate" of speed....A Mas Oyama reverse punch was like a train, a Dog Brothers stick strike to the head is like a whip... which one has a faster rate of speed? It can be measured, just as the rate a Tyson punch travels versus an Ali punch could be measured, but think about it... the actual rate the punch goes is not singularly what made Ali or Tyson quick yes? You said it yourself...its the body...its the ability of the man to land that blow with force...its the ability not to telegraph the blow... and many other developments that make throwing a punch so it will land not simply a pimp slap with a wind up.

personally I don't see the rate of speed being a primary consideration, thats an opinion I hold, not a fact. There were probably guys who could thow a reverse punch a lot faster than Oyama, but... Oyama taught methods that allowed that punch to arrive to target with a lot of force....I use Oyama as an example because as you know martial arts also deals with issues of speed, force and technique and... it can pull you and Ray out of just looking at this issue with two guys.

Finally, if one sits back and considers all the things that have to happen for a punch to land on target, and all the little things that can devistate the force with which a punch lands...one can surmise that a lot of quickness involves getting that punch to target without the other guy expecting it. How much of this skill has to do with the pure rate the punch travels? Its a question worth pondering.

It doesn't matter the method only the results. the above post ablove me also shows this!


Good read otherwise but in way shows why Ali is faster, excellerated technique by the taller ali is just that his technique of throwing longer arm shots..

[juggernaut666]

:

Look Tyson beat people by having them scared out of their wits by fight time. To answer your other question about Lennox Lewis, I seem to recall team Tyson kicking Lennox Lewis out of their sparring sessions in training camp.

Buster Douglas beat Tyson because he was not afraid, and was extra motivated. Oliver McCall knocked Tyson out with one punch in sparring. I think Tyson is over rated.

"Buster Douglas beat Tyson because he was not afraid, and was extra motivated. Oliver McCall knocked Tyson out with one punch in sparring. I think Tyson is over rated."