How good of a trainer was Lou Duva?

[Ray Corso]

Old timers like Certo are there to win, the pro fight game is life and death. The promotion already spent their money on the actual promo of the fight, the training camps and all the bills that come with a camp. What happens if money is docked because a fighter
refuses to fight during the bout? What if the purse is with held or only a partial payment is given? Who's stuck with the bill?

Yes Andrew was a proven risk but he went with the old timers because they bred confidence in a guy, they know how to bring
the seriousness and reality but built their fighters both physically & mentally.

The thread about Duva being a good trainer........he wasn't he was a motivator and a managerial piece between Duva Productions offices and the fighter. He had Benton doing the gym work and he was always involved similar to Dundee and Ali after Ali's 3 year ban.

Andrew's lucky Certo was as old as he was or he would have caved the stool over his head.
We don't "play boxing" this isn't Floyd vs Manny.

Might sound cruel but loosing 30 grand because some guy quits in the ring IS a big deal.

Ray

[BKM-]

Old timers like Certo are there to win, the pro fight game is life and death. The promotion already spent their money on the actual promo of the fight, the training camps and all the bills that come with a camp. What happens if money is docked because a fighter
refuses to fight during the bout? What if the purse is with held or only a partial payment is given? Who's stuck with the bill?

Yes Andrew was a proven risk but he went with the old timers because they bred confidence in a guy, they know how to bring
the seriousness and reality but built their fighters both physically & mentally.

The thread about Duva being a good trainer........he wasn't he was a motivator and a managerial piece between Duva Productions offices and the fighter. He had Benton doing the gym work and he was always involved similar to Dundee and Ali after Ali's 3 year ban.

Andrew's lucky Certo was as old as he was or he would have caved the stool over his head.
We don't "play boxing" this isn't Floyd vs Manny.

Might sound cruel but loosing 30 grand because some guy quits in the ring IS a big deal.

Ray

You are missing the point Ray. Normally I would totally agree with you on that but this was a different situation, we're not talking about the reactions in the ring but much later. I am assuming that you're aware of the brain and neck injury of Golota that was revealed after the fight?

Dr. Wesley Yapor, a neurosurgeon treating Golota, said the fighter sustained a concussion, a fractured left cheekbone and a herniated disc between the fourth and fifth cervical vertebrae.

After an MRI, it was thought there was a little bleeding in the brain, and that does appear to be the case, according to Yapor.

"If he had sustained another serious blow to the head he could have become paralyzed," Yapor said. "There's no way I would have allowed him to enter the ring for the second round."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/g...ht-636895.html

Certo would have been aware of this by the time he did the TV show interview, so why is he still so resentful? He has the hindsight already. Would he have rather Golota gone out there to get paralyzed for life or even die?

The whole "tough love" thing does not fit here.

[BKM-]

There is a lot more to the fight than what happened in the ring. As much as I have sympathy for people, people sometimes really ask for problems. In this case the fight was made on the premise that a train wreck would occur. Both men, Tyson and Golota, went into the fight in a psychological state that was prohibitive. The responsible thing to do, for both men, would have been to deal with issues, get into the groove, maybe take an easier fight, and build up again.

It was known at the time that Golota was in no condition to fight. he had similar problems going against Lewis, it is why he looked so strange when he was caught by lewis...his eyes are wide open like he is in a type of shock...very dangerous, not generally how a person on the canvas looks. Tyson was, if memory serves correct, also coming off some problematic performances.

When those guys went into the ring it was sad, but they knew what they were doing and that the result was not going to be good. But alas it was sad indeed...

You bring up some good points. You know, I went through years of hating on Golota but the more I read about the circumstances surrounding the Lewis and Tyson fights I start feeling bad for him. It's true that he wasn't in a proper condition to get in the ring either times. After the Lewis fight he had a seizure and was admitted to the hospital. The concussions continued to affect him and he could have died in the Tyson fight.

They say concussions can severely alter a person's personality and decision making. I believe Golota was a textbook example. I hope he's doing alright these days in retirement.

I remember his biography and his goal in life was to work in construction and have a normal life. That was probably the better path for him I wonder if he has regrets.

[Ray Corso]

I don't know if Certo knew about those findings or not. I'm not covering the guy if he did I'm just commenting on what went on in the ring. Every fighter goes through a battery of tests and brain scans are apart of that medical. It's possible for him to be clear then suffer an injury between the tests date and leading up to the fight or during the bout.
My friend Charlie Newall was killed in the ring in Hartford Ct. in a bout against Marlon Starling. He had all his tests in order but he was killed that night in the ring. Years earlier he was in a very bad car accident and the aneurysm that killed was developed from that accident. Why it didn't show in the tests wasn't disclosed but thats what happened to Charlie and Marlon. They knew each other and liked one another but thats boxing. Serious sh*!.

Ray

[billeau2]

I don't know if Certo knew about those findings or not. I'm not covering the guy if he did I'm just commenting on what went on in the ring. Every fighter goes through a battery of tests and brain scans are apart of that medical. It's possible for him to be clear then suffer an injury between the tests date and leading up to the fight or during the bout.
My friend Charlie Newall was killed in the ring in Hartford Ct. in a bout against Marlon Starling. He had all his tests in order but he was killed that night in the ring. Years earlier he was in a very bad car accident and the aneurysm that killed was developed from that accident. Why it didn't show in the tests wasn't disclosed but thats what happened to Charlie and Marlon. They knew each other and liked one another but thats boxing. Serious sh*!.

Ray

Thats horrible. As we all know the same thing happened to Dolph Camillo's younger bro with Max Bauer. Tests can only catch so much and it will always be a risk. Ah what a world it would be... no risk and lots of reward, no guts but plenty of glory... Just wouldn't be the same. Theres a scene in the Honeymooners where Norton, who worked in the sewer of course, is talking about a perfect world, one where "all manhole covers were pizzas!"

[billeau2]

You bring up some good points. You know, I went through years of hating on Golota but the more I read about the circumstances surrounding the Lewis and Tyson fights I start feeling bad for him. It's true that he wasn't in a proper condition to get in the ring either times. After the Lewis fight he had a seizure and was admitted to the hospital. The concussions continued to affect him and he could have died in the Tyson fight.

They say concussions can severely alter a person's personality and decision making. I believe Golota was a textbook example. I hope he's doing alright these days in retirement.

I remember his biography and his goal in life was to work in construction and have a normal life. That was probably the better path for him I wonder if he has regrets.

Amen

Golota was apparently a basket case from the word "go." He came up street fighting in Poland. The thing about the Lewis fight was allegedly that he took some pain killers before entering the ring...I don't remember where I heard this but I THINK he had to be talked to go to the lewis fight. lewis certainly was in no mood to take it easy on him. And...it happened quite a few times with Golota, brewster also put him down hard and fast.

I hate to admit this but...I had a couple bad "dings"myself from the Karate fighting and one bad mispent outing as a youth involving 13 year old me and a group of 18 year olds looking for trouble... Its scary BKM! That there central processing unit has all the vital info... who will remember the first time my first pup Poochie kissed me?! Or the exact, intense vanilla flavor that the old Carvel soft serve used to have?

[Anthony342]

That Carvel soft serve still has it, I've been to one recently here in New York.

[Anthony342]

I think that when a piece of bone in your skull cracked and is about to penetrate your brain, you probably can tell that something is terribly wrong.

If you listen to the post fight interview from Golota, he's slurring and stuttering so badly it's actually disturbing. He was in danger and he had enough sense to save himself otherwise Tyson would have killed him, literally.

But Certo in the interview, even after knowing all the medical facts is not forgiving whatsoever and is simply mad that his fighter didn't win. He simply cares more about winning/money than his fighter's well being, that's the only reason for him attacking Golota like that.

Do you know for sure that he knows them though? Was it mentioned to him during the interview? If he really did know and still felt that way, then yeah, kind of jerky on his part.

[BKM-]

Do you know for sure that he knows them though? Was it mentioned to him during the interview? If he really did know and still felt that way, then yeah, kind of jerky on his part.

The medical recordings were known within days after the fight, Certo his trainer would be one of the first to know.

The tv show "Legendary Nights" where Certo made those comments was a few years after that fight. 100% He knew about Golota's life threatening injuries.

I tell you, if I was a fighter around that era I would have avoided a trainer/corner like that like the plague. Absolutely no care for your health or well being, only interested in MONEY and winning. This is how ring deaths sometimes happen.

I feel disgusted watching the aftermath of Golota-Tyson. His team, the whole arena throwing food at him, the interviewer scolding him etc. and then the winner tests positive post fight. Black eye for the sport.

[Anthony342]

Then yeah, that makes Certo look kind of douchey.