ATG's List by McGoorty - A Hall of Fame

[McGoorty]

Well before I ever try a Top 100 or top 50 I need to make sure I don't overlook those who really deserve to be there so this will take many many hours and you guys can help by throwing in names. The basis for ATG listing is resume, skills, win loss record, historical reputation (we have not always been around so many old timers may get overlooked if we ignore the opinions of all those who were present, fighters who make claims of their own greatness are claims worth a pinch of salt), if there are other factors I missed tell me. well it's time to list as many as we can..... three categories..... little guys (fly to feather) ... Medium guys (lightweights to middles) and the big guys.... (super middle upwards). First the big guys. 1895 -

Big Guys

[LEFT]Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Ezzard Charles
Sam Langford
Joe Louis
Roy Jones Jr.
Joe Jeannette
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Evander Holyfield
Bob Fitzsimmons
Michael Spinks
Lennox Lewis
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Archie Moore
Jim Jeffries
Jack Johnson
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
Tommy Loughran
Bob Foster
Dick Tiger
Tommy Gibbons
Jack Root
Maxie Rosenbloom
Paul Berlenbach
Matthew Saad Muhammad
Willie Pastrano
Harold Johnson
Joe Calzaghe
Georges Carpentier
Gentleman Jim Corbett
Peter Jackson
Floyd Patterson
Joey Maxim
Billy Conn
Kid Norfolk
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
Gus Lesnevitch
Jose Torres
Sam McVea

Obviously I must have missed a few, maybe you disagree that some above don't deserve ATG or HoF or to be on any shortlist for a Top 100, I intend to name anything up to 200 fighters maybe a few more I don't know. You can throw names in and then we can check resume's more closely and film evidence can be very helpful too in evaluating skills and traits.

[soul_survivor]

Happy to see someone else trying this, so here's mine from a few years back:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=608842

It might help. I'm currently in the process of re-jigging the list, something which has taken a lot of time. So I know what you're about to go through.

[M Bison]

Maybe the odd few generous decisions to include one or two names but overall can't complain, I'm sure Ray can comment further into this.

[McGoorty]

Medium Sized Guys

Medium sized guys

Sugar Ray Robinson
Tommy Ryan
Jake La Motta
Harry Greb
Les Darcy
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran
Bernard Hopkins
Mickey Walker
Tiger Flowers
Carlos Monzon
Stanley Ketchel
Barbados Joe Walcott
Tony Zale
Gene Fullmer
Charley Burley
Holman Williams
Freddie Steele
Marcel Cerdan
Young Corbett III
Teddy Yarosz
Marcel Thil
Mike Gibbons
Kid McCoy
Jeff Smith
James Toney
Kid McCoy
Thomas Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Packey McFarland
Oscar De La Hoya
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Emile Griffith
Carmen Basilio
Billy Graham
Joey Giardello
Jose Napoles
Ted Kid Lewis
Jack Britton
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Barney Ross
Jimmy McLarnin
Sammy Mandell
Jackie Fields
Fritzie Zivic
Lou Broulliard
Dixie Kid
Shane Mosley
Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Mysterious Billy Smith
Pernell Whitaker
Tony Canzoneri
Lou Ambers
Carlos Ortiz
Ike Williams
Carlos Ortiz
Kostya Tszyu
Beau Jack
Freddie Welsh
Battling Nelson
Ad Wolgast
Joe "Old Bones" Brown
George Kid Lavigne
Jack McAuliffe
Alexis Arguello
Bob Montgomery
Frank Erne
Jack Kid Berg
Sammy Angott
Julio Cesar Chavez
Aaron Pryor
Niccolino Locche
Duilio Loi

Jimmy Carter

I could put Young Griffo in here but he is more well known at Featherweight but did fight at Lightweight and beat some of the guys in this list. Fell free to add anyone I should have included but its a hell of a list of really great fighters. I will not consider anyone still active, Mayweather is there as I assume he will either stay retired or is in his twilight, it pains me toi have to put him on any list but oh well, he is the best of his size in the last decade and I won't argue that.

[McGoorty]

Maybe the odd few generous decisions to include one or two names but overall can't complain, I'm sure Ray can comment further into this.

Please say who you think is a lucky inclusion, you have every right to say what you like, there are sure to be some I missed out on too.

[Bald Shavers]

Greatest Heavyweights (all time)

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Sonny Liston

George Foreman

Gene Tunney

Rocky Marciano

Jack Dempsey

Mike Tyson

Earnie Shavers

Joe Walcott

Joe Frazier

Lennox Lewis

Max Baer

Riddick Bowe

Vitali Klischko

Ezzard Charles

Wladmir Klischko

Floyd Patterson



Pound for Pound (All-Time)

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Joe Louis
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Archie Moore
8. Roberto Duran
9. Harry Greb
10. Sam Lanford
11. Benny Leonard
12. Jimmy Wilde
13. Joe Gans
14. Carlos Monzon
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Manny Pacquiao
17. Roy Jones
18. Julio Ceasar Chavez SENIOR
19. Floyd Mayweather JUNIOR
20. Pernell Whitaker
21. Bernard Hopkins
22. Gene Tunney
23. Tommy Loughran
24. Carmen Basilio
25. Tony Canzoneri
26. George Foreman
27. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
28. Jack Dempsey
29. Salvador Sanchez
30. Kid Gavilan

[McGoorty]

Happy to see someone else trying this, so here's mine from a few years back:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=608842

It might help. I'm currently in the process of re-jigging the list, something which has taken a lot of time. So I know what you're about to go through.

It's quite good, at least one notable omission but i commented on that thread and you may not have heard of them so you can be forgiven, one of my major jobs is to get these two names back to their rightful place. Young Griffo was a giant of the sport around the turn of the 20th century, fastest and best defensive guy the ever has been and a gobsmacking record/resume

[McGoorty]

Greatest Heavyweights (all time)

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Sonny Liston

George Foreman

Gene Tunney

Rocky Marciano

Jack Dempsey

Mike Tyson

Earnie Shavers

Joe Walcott

Joe Frazier

Lennox Lewis

Max Baer

Riddick Bowe

Vitali Klischko

Ezzard Charles

Wladmir Klischko

Floyd Patterson



Pound for Pound (All-Time)

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Joe Louis
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Archie Moore
8. Roberto Duran
9. Harry Greb
10. Sam Lanford
11. Benny Leonard
12. Jimmy Wilde
13. Joe Gans
14. Carlos Monzon
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Manny Pacquiao
17. Roy Jones
18. Julio Ceasar Chavez SENIOR
19. Floyd Mayweather JUNIOR
20. Pernell Whitaker
21. Bernard Hopkins
22. Gene Tunney
23. Tommy Loughran
24. Carmen Basilio
25. Tony Canzoneri
26. George Foreman
27. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
28. Jack Dempsey
29. Salvador Sanchez
30. Kid Gavilan

Yeah I overlooked JCC but will have included him anyway, I am yet to go through the fly to super feathers. As for your heavyweights I don't rate Shavers as an ATG despite his power punching, I did not have a couple others there either as to me the weakest division ever is the heavyweights. I have not got the Klitschko brothers in yet as they are both still active but they of course will be there eventually I think. I just wish they would find some worthier opposition so there can be no argument but the heavyweight division is almost always fated to have a dominant champ with no ATG's to fight... or maybe one or two at the most. I also cannot include too many heavies from a single time period, that's why a Ken Norton failed to make my list.

[Danieltapia]

-

Big Guys

[LEFT]Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Ezzard Charles
Sam Langford
.

But why did Muhammad Ali leave?

[wmute]

Medium sized guys

Sugar Ray Robinson
Tommy Ryan
Jake La Motta
Harry Greb
Les Darcy
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran
Bernard Hopkins
Mickey Walker
Tiger Flowers
Carlos Monzon
Stanley Ketchel
Barbados Joe Walcott
Tony Zale
Gene Fullmer
Charley Burley
Holman Williams
Freddie Steele
Marcel Cerdan
Young Corbett III
Teddy Yarosz
Marcel Thil
Mike Gibbons
Kid McCoy
Jeff Smith
James Toney
Kid McCoy
Thomas Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Packey McFarland
Oscar De La Hoya
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Emile Griffith
Carmen Basilio
Billy Graham
Joey Giardello
Jose Napoles
Ted Kid Lewis
Jack Britton
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Barney Ross
Jimmy McLarnin
Sammy Mandell
Jackie Fields
Fritzie Zivic
Lou Broulliard
Dixie Kid
Shane Mosley
Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Mysterious Billy Smith
Pernell Whitaker
Tony Canzoneri
Lou Ambers
Carlos Ortiz
Ike Williams
Carlos Ortiz
Kostya Tszyu
Beau Jack
Freddie Welsh
Battling Nelson
Ad Wolgast
Joe "Old Bones" Brown
George Kid Lavigne
Jack McAuliffe
Alexis Arguello
Bob Montgomery
Frank Erne
Jack Kid Berg
Sammy Angott

I could put Young Griffo in here but he is more well known at Featherweight but did fight at Lightweight and beat some of the guys in this list. Fell free to add anyone I should have included but its a hell of a list of really great fighters. I will not consider anyone still active, Mayweather is there as I assume he will either stay retired or is in his twilight, it pains me toi have to put him on any list but oh well, he is the best of his size in the last decade and I won't argue that.

I like your list. So much that I am treating with the maximum respect, and spending time on it: instead of looking for a name to argue it should not be there, I am thinking of who I would put there, and I do not see.

So far I would have added Chavez Sr, but I see in a comment you will take care of him in the small guys.

Truly impressive. Makes me want to look at the names I don't know!