Who do you rate higher P4P: Roberto Duran or Muhammad Ali

[TBear]

i would not call Marvin Hagler "Skillful" Marvin was a Tough-Cookie who beat-down his opponents with a relentless aggressive assault. He was an incredibly durable and incredibly fit individual. But skillful, `i can't have that!

Did you start watching Hagler around the Hearns fight?

[Suckmedry]

i would not call Marvin Hagler "Skillful" Marvin was a Tough-Cookie who beat-down his opponents with a relentless aggressive assault. He was an incredibly durable and incredibly fit individual. But skillful, `i can't have that!

Its like you haven't even watched the guy...

Hagler before he began to slow down, was as fine a boxer as I've ever seen. Not particularly fast (but not slow) he could lead with either hand, give you angles, counterpunch, and put together lovely combinations.

[Anthony342]

i would not call Marvin Hagler "Skillful" Marvin was a Tough-Cookie who beat-down his opponents with a relentless aggressive assault. He was an incredibly durable and incredibly fit individual. But skillful, `i can't have that!

Move along, people. Nothing to see here.

[The Old LefHook]

i would not call Marvin Hagler "Skillful" Marvin was a Tough-Cookie who beat-down his opponents with a relentless aggressive assault. He was an incredibly durable and incredibly fit individual. But skillful, `i can't have that!

You do not have to be sweet pea Whitaker level to be called skillful, man. I agree with most of what you say about Marvin above. He had what I would call decent skills at the elite level. Jabbing is a skill, keeping your guard up is a skill. I think it is far amiss to call Marvin skill-less. Obviousy, he was no Leonard, or even a Duran, but his medicine bag was not empty.

[BrometheusBob.]

i would not call Marvin Hagler "Skillful" Marvin was a Tough-Cookie who beat-down his opponents with a relentless aggressive assault. He was an incredibly durable and incredibly fit individual. But skillful, `i can't have that!

Spoken like a true casual

[The Old LefHook]

It is close. Arguably the two greatest of their generations. The non-heavyweight fighter has the statictical advantage in these comparisons because he is able to move up divisions and show his wares.

The blueprint for beating Duran was drafted by Ray Leonard. It was a choreography Ali would have grasped immediately instead of taking two fights to catch on to. Duran was a little easier to stay away from than Frazier, who applied more pressure at a quicker tempo. If Leonard could stay away from a welterweight version of Duran as easily as he did, a young Ali could easily evade the heavyweight version.

I believe Ali is slightly the greater P4P fighter on a who-beats-who basis, but have no argument with those who say otherwise. Duran's assertion of P4P greatness was a little more dramatic, due to division climbing, and his killer aura adds to his lasting adoration but not his ability to chase down masters of lateral movement.

The Viruets hinted as lightweights what was possible with Duran through lots of movement. Ali had more ability in one leg than the Viruets, and he was also a punching machine, whereas they were only touching machines, at best. Once they disrupted Duran's rhythm they did not have anything else effective to do but tap him like the skinny wimps they were.

If Ali had been a lightweight, one of these two gentelmen would probably not be rated quite so highly P4P. My mythical money says Duran is lucky in the P4P sense that Ali was not a lightweight.

[soul_survivor]

Ali and it should be by a country mile but I know everyone wants to come across as smart, hip and counter culture and vote Duran. Duran lost some of the biggest fights of his career and even quit. Ali was just far superior, faster, stronger, better chin, superior heart and will and a better resume. Ali is superior to just about every fighter in history any which way.

[billeau2]

Hard to compare really. Duran was a boxer puncher with such superb skills that he found ways to box when his power didn't carry up. Duran was ferocious and unrelenting in his the application of his skills and really beat guys up psychologically as much as physically...I once asked joe Reine who the most badazz fighter really was when it came to presence and he put Duran (and Fullmer) right up there in the stratosphere and Joe knows his shizzle.

Ali was Unique. He didn't come across as a tiger, yet had such balls of brass that he coul get up from the Frazier shot, defy incredible odds on various occasions.... Ali could simply do things in a ring that put him in the 1 of 1 percentile, things that guys like Robinson and Jones and few others could do.

Heres the thing: Will the warrior Gods ever make a boxer puncher as good as Duran? probably. It mike take a while mind you but...the Gods who do these things have a mold for badazz punchers who have ATG skills.

But when they made Ali? well, the mold spread up to mount olympus itself...half mortal half human and all kinds of things that humans...made from the clay jars of the Anunaki, dragging their knuckles across the floor before walking, could hardly aspire to...I doubt we will ever see another Ali, just ask Elroy!

[rightsideup]

The vote after an early duran lead has shifted to ali. We are all entitled to our thoughts but as I stated before it should be close. Bert sugar had ali ahead by I position I believe 1 postion in his pound for pound ratings. I just wanted to make the point that when duran moved up in weight and lost to hagler,hearns,benitez and leonard that these were not only bigger fighters but very high up the scale as ATGs. In my opinion joe Louis and ali are the two greatest heavy weights that ever entered a ring. Durans rivals at his peak weight are harder to compare as the element of time is greater. His rivals are joe Gan s and Benny Leonard

[Panamaniac]

1. Robinson
2. Louis
3. Ali
4. Duran
5. Armstrong
6. Greb
7. Gans
8. Pep
9. Leonard, B.
10. Holmes