Duran vs McCallum 154

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  • rightsideup
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    #21
    This fight almost happened as it was Duran's mandatory defense he fought hearns for better money and unprepared and you saw the result

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    • DannyNL
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      #22
      McCallum 100%. Like mentioned already, he was way too big, fast and skilled at that weight for Duran to handle.

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      • BennyST
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        #23
        Originally posted by joseph5620
        I get tired of seeing the "not training" excuse for all of Duran's poor performances. If he was that lackadaisical about training he probably didn't train for a lot of his good performances either.


        Davey Moore was not McCallum by a long shot which is probably why Duran didn't look the same way against Benitez or Hearns.
        No, you could definitely see a noticeable difference. He's a bit like Toney in that regard. When he was on, he was really on and as good as anyone in history, but he really did have a lot of piss poor performances during the latter part of his career where there was a significant, noticeable lack of Duraness about him in every way. Lacking stamina, lacking balance, speed, looking slow and lumbering, being off on the counter etc. Then he often retired, then came back again. You could see he didn't have stuff going at all into some fights during that period and that he really only trained properly for a few short periods in that whole latter part before going into ****e mode again. Usually when he was a huge underdog and had been counted out completely.

        It's not an 'excuse' for his poor performances in a way saying that it's ok. It clearly wasn't and had a huge effect on his career. Can you imagine if he had trained as hard as he did for Leonard 1 etc going into his 154 and 160 pound fights, coming in lighter, faster, sharper, hungrier? They'd all be a different story and he'd be even more highly rated than he is now, considering the guys he was able to fight. It's more simply a reason for them. You only need to look at a few fights to see a crazy drastic difference in the way he fights. Even some of his early 147 fights, compared to Palomino, or Leonard for instance, the difference is staggering. He looks soft, flat footed, tired, slow...it literally looks like he came in to some fights with a hangover or something. It's not an excuse, it's just an observation and reason.
        Last edited by BennyST; 09-11-2015, 12:14 PM.

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        • BennyST
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          #24
          Yeah, people are underselling McMallum here big time. He was a true great in the highest sense of the word. His skill and boxing acumen rivalled just about anyone's, including Duran's. He didn't have those small extra things that Duran had up to 147 in his best performances that made him freaky top ten good, the insane stamina, the crazy speed with the power etc, the defense and mad attack, but he certainly had everything going for him overall.

          He wasn't slow by any means, had a great jab, good power, great chin, beautiful counters, body punching of course...he was a bloody brilliant fighter.

          At 154 Duran just didn't have the size, let alone the other stuff that made him so great at the lower weights. It'd be a good, highly skilled fight even with 154 Duran, but McCallum was a big 154er.

          That natural size advantage, plus everything else he had on top of that would have made it hard for Duran to take a decision.

          McCallum didn't attack and push that much, and if there was one obvious flaw it was that he wasn't great at leading, not nearly enough to get Duran, whose chin and defensive savvy would keep him in, out of there and didn't possess that crushing Hearns-like speed and freak power needed to get someone as tough and resilient as Duran out of there, so it wouldn't end in stoppage, but McCallum would take a decision.

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          • DannyNL
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            #25
            Originally posted by joseph5620
            I get tired of seeing the "not training" excuse for all of Duran's poor performances. If he was that lackadaisical about training he probably didn't train for a lot of his good performances either.
            Agreed 100%. I hate when people excuse poor performances with lackadaisical training habits.

            Boxing is a lot more than a battle of pure skill. You have to be prepared physically and mentally, and that factors in to your worth as a fighter.

            If Duran couldn't be bothered to train hard for certain fights, then to me that says he wasn't as good as we think he was.

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            • BennyST
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              #26
              Originally posted by DannyNL
              Agreed 100%. I hate when people excuse poor performances with lackadaisical training habits.

              Boxing is a lot more than a battle of pure skill. You have to be prepared physically and mentally, and that factors in to your worth as a fighter.

              If Duran couldn't be bothered to train hard for certain fights, then to me that says he wasn't as good as we think he was.
              So make up your own mind then. There doesn't have to be any 'we' about it. You can think of him as a bum piece of **** for all it matters. Put him at number 83 on your P4P top 100 list.

              What I don't get is that people think that his ****ty training habits in the latter part of his career don't get taken into account. Take those poorly trained fights and losses away, leave in the good, and he's very arguably number one all time, if not clearly. Put the losses back in and he moves down to the 6-10 spot he generally holds.

              It doesn't stop what he did earlier and what he did earlier clearly establishes him as a greater fighter than the huge majority. But, the latter part with poor performances do hurt him. I don't get why people think they don't. Those few great performances among the bad help to negate a small amount of the harm they did, but not entirely.

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              • The Old LefHook
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                #27
                Originally posted by BennyST
                He wasn't slow by any means, had a great jab, good power, great chin, beautiful counters, body punching of course...he was a bloody brilliant fighter.
                Nor was the Snatcher fast by any means. Handspeed difference along with slippery skills would help Duran survive and put up a competitive fight.

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                • Rspen46
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                  #28
                  McCallum was one of the few Boxers that could have outboxed Duran, I saw someone post, he was too skilled for Duran, adding his size, reach, power with his awesome skill, yes, he would have been too much for Duran, at JMW he was the better defensive fighter and more skill, Duran at times could be wild and leave himself open, Mike was always boxing, thinking and playing defense 1st, Duran did not always go with his skill 1st, McCallum was the best JMW of All-time, he beats Hearns, Trinidad, De La Hoya, Vargas, Mosley, Little, Wright, or any other JMW you can think of, no one beats him at this weight, at JMW I would rank Duran top 10 all-time but not top 5.

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                  • them_apples
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                    #29
                    Well is duran showed up like he did against moore or quevas..hes got a great chance. The question is does he show up?

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                    • them_apples
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                      #30
                      Originally posted by BennyST
                      No, you could definitely see a noticeable difference. He's a bit like Toney in that regard. When he was on, he was really on and as good as anyone in history, but he really did have a lot of piss poor performances during the latter part of his career where there was a significant, noticeable lack of Duraness about him in every way. Lacking stamina, lacking balance, speed, looking slow and lumbering, being off on the counter etc. Then he often retired, then came back again. You could see he didn't have stuff going at all into some fights during that period and that he really only trained properly for a few short periods in that whole latter part before going into ****e mode again. Usually when he was a huge underdog and had been counted out completely.

                      It's not an 'excuse' for his poor performances in a way saying that it's ok. It clearly wasn't and had a huge effect on his career. Can you imagine if he had trained as hard as he did for Leonard 1 etc going into his 154 and 160 pound fights, coming in lighter, faster, sharper, hungrier? They'd all be a different story and he'd be even more highly rated than he is now, considering the guys he was able to fight. It's more simply a reason for them. You only need to look at a few fights to see a crazy drastic difference in the way he fights. Even some of his early 147 fights, compared to Palomino, or Leonard for instance, the difference is staggering. He looks soft, flat footed, tired, slow...it literally looks like he came in to some fights with a hangover or something. It's not an excuse, it's just an observation and reason.
                      You are absolutely right. The weird thing is, duran was so damn good on his good nights, he would make even atg fighters look bad. He was a phenom and i think it started with his mental game - he had no respect for anyone.

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