What did Angelo Dundee have against weight training?

[billeau2]

Ray you dont know anything about MMA which i was referring ,which i am a part in,and yes the stronger clincher will usually control where the fight goes in a ring or cage ,technique is limited in a clinch as its physical combined with balance and almost always controlled by the stronger guy.If two are equal the stronger one will control clinches ,no bar belled brains allowed ?What are you on?Are you on the beach watching a body building contest?

bringing water to the fighters does not really count as being "part in"..sorry to break it to ya Juggs. But next year you can become the team cheerleader if you try real hard.

[Mintcar923]

.........."Ali and SRL had kind of a scrawny look to them" ..........Really?

Two of the best physiques in the history of boxing!

Leonard 5' 10" 147
Ali 6' 3 1/2" 210-220

neither with muscle peaks both long and lean muscled with tremendous endurance and great lung capacity. Not over muscled with tremendous athletic body strength.

I have no idea how you see "scawny" when you look at either man.
Ray.

Muhammad Ali did not have much muscle at all and especially when he was very young.. Ray didnt either under Dundee although he did bulk up for the Hagler fight.. And, also subsequent bouts after Angie's departure..

[juggernaut666]

100% agree. Pep vs saddler anyone?!

@ ray corso Your boy billy boy is the one who brought MMA into it Corso,you scenile fool....i was seperating the two ...to answer your question anyway ,boxing clinching consists mainly of who has the abilities to initiate it and just nuetralize the other guys punching ,the stronger guy USUALLY will have the edge as weight will play a key role if you can also lean on an opponent to tire him out.....if you are going to be involved at least know whats going on ,your first post started good then crashed and burned as usual ........


@ironalex ,boxing clinching has little to do with MMA ,really this billy dope doesnt know anything ...you can use judo leverage and greco wrestling clinch style but has nothing to do with MMA ,you cant flip or or take anyone down in boxing ...the clinch is vastly limited in boxing and could be controlled by the stronger guy because so,its much more difficult to use technique with the rules and boxing gloves ....dirty boxing was used back in the day of clinch and hit when it was legal and is a main MMA technique .....

[juggernaut666]

your still putting words in my mouth Juggy. Put thoughts in your brain instead. useful strength is useful for any athlete...MMA fighters use striking also btw in case you didn't notice.

Grappling, like picking heavy things up, builds useful strength, period. This strength is useful for any athlete. A Rock climber is a very strong human being, every muscle in her/his body is used in climbing....

Your one track record of a mind has played over and over....and it does not make it right to say it over and over onequarter wit!

You're so dumb i dont know where to begin,lets start with the obvious .......physical strength doesnt apply to punching power ,ALL the things you stated are useful for MMA not boxing ,rock climbing is best for strengthening FINGERS.......the main sport that uses fingers mostly is actually Arm wrestling and wrestling as it gives grip and pinch strength ....i know this you DONT,for OBVIUOS reasons ,one i was a national champ at one time in one of the two .......swimming is the obviuos choice for boxers ...rock climbing is not.Unless you think fingers are used in boxing then i wouldn't do rock climbing ,talk about a waste of time as opposed to the weight strength sessions tailored to boxing that will actually help...

MMA striking is not boxing striking ,you would know this but you dont for OBVIUOS reasons....the MMA style NEEDS physical strength for grappling and to maintain to be able to strike in spurts with hand and legs.....in short i dont have to convince anyone,all they have to do is go through this thread and who posted irrelevant and wrong ones anyway!

[Anthony342]

Lifing for strength and weight training in general is not an option for an elite MMA fighter like it is for a boxer,the clinch will almost always take place and this is where usually the physically stronger will control the fight unlike boxing where they have a ref separate them...MMAis physically different and striking in MMA cannot be compared to boxing as you need physical more strength to wrestle /grapple.....boxing needs to be more fluid and less muscular in general to throw continuous punches for prolonged periods and to keep the hands and shoulders elevated for defense as blood will quickly target the arm and fatigue them because of it.
You dont need to be muscular to win in either sport ,but gracie has nothing to with the topic of weights in boxing,you dont grow by weight lifting you grow by consuming more calories if one weight trains without changing calorie intake you get stronger but wont gain weight......your boy Marciano there i have read lifted weights ,wasnt he known for endless cardio and the strongest puncher of his era?Even if its not the case as you stated lifting correctly helps if done right only foolish trolls with failed agendas will continue with the b.s here !

Yep, lifted weights and had some good punching power. His cardio was probably more due to all the running and rounds he boxed in training, jumping rope and all that though. Not only fighters, but athletes today seem to rely too much on it, so now they don't last as long as they used to because they don't do enough cardio to go along with it. They used to be able to go 15 rounds with some good regularity, now these guys can barely go 12, some barely even 10. I wouldn't be surprised if they made boxing 10 rounds now.

[ironalex]

@ ray corso Your boy billy boy is the one who brought MMA into it Corso,you scenile fool....i was seperating the two ...to answer your question anyway ,boxing clinching consists mainly of who has the abilities to initiate it and just nuetralize the other guys punching ,the stronger guy USUALLY will have the edge as weight will play a key role if you can also lean on an opponent to tire him out.....if you are going to be involved at least know whats going on ,your first post started good then crashed and burned as usual ........


@ironalex ,boxing clinching has little to do with MMA ,really this billy dope doesnt know anything ...you can use judo leverage and greco wrestling clinch style but has nothing to do with MMA ,you cant flip or or take anyone down in boxing ...the clinch is vastly limited in boxing and could be controlled by the stronger guy because so,its much more difficult to use technique with the rules and boxing gloves ....dirty boxing was used back in the day of clinch and hit when it was legal and is a main MMA technique .....

I still don't understand why MMA has anything to do with this. Fact is you are basically totally disagreeing with Angelo Dundee who trained some of the best fighters ever. Everyone has their theories but the fact of the matter is for every one fighter who uses weights I can name you at least five fighters that are better.

[BennyST]

Muhammad Ali did not have much muscle at all and especially when he was very young.. Ray didnt either under Dundee although he did bulk up for the Hagler fight.. And, also subsequent bouts after Angie's departure..

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[juggernaut666]

I still don't understand why MMA has anything to do with this. Fact is you are basically totally disagreeing with Angelo Dundee who trained some of the best fighters ever. Everyone has their theories but the fact of the matter is for every one fighter who uses weights I can name you at least five fighters that are better.

I didnt bring MMA into it ,that was your knuckle head friend billy boy,however MMA fitness for cardio would help along with some strength.
programs for increase punching.

Im disagreeing with Dundee ,only an uneducated person would agree with him,Sports science today was not around then,and Dundee was more of an advisor type coach,personally i think in general he was some what limited in the actual training department ,but lets stick to the topic .....those who dont use weight training areonly cheating themselves ,you dont need this forum if you dont believe me there are countless articles and documents on the net ,myself have lifted over 25 years and even at my age power and form have only improved ,i have experiance on the subject weather you wish to listen doesnt reflect on me ,thats on you.The best modern fighter to go full throttle with them was Holyfield,who was even more balanced as a fighter than prime Tyson ,again its not that you need weights in boxing ,think how much better the ones who didnt lift would have been ,there is a differance between strength for punching and weight lifting ,you do not get worse when you are stronger ,anyone who argues that is out dated.

[juggernaut666]

Yep, lifted weights and had some good punching power. His cardio was probably more due to all the running and rounds he boxed in training, jumping rope and all that though. Not only fighters, but athletes today seem to rely too much on it, so now they don't last as long as they used to because they don't do enough cardio to go along with it. They used to be able to go 15 rounds with some good regularity, now these guys can barely go 12, some barely even 10. I wouldn't be surprised if they made boxing 10 rounds now.

Well what fights are you refering to? Heavyweights today are heavier ,back in those 15 rounders fighters weighed anywhere from 180 to 200 on average ......today they weigh 235 /24 0 on average thats a few weight class jump.Bigger guys are going to use more energy and throw less punches but thats reality.....guys like Corso cant differentiate the different mechanics of HW's over 215 ,hes practically incapable of it.

Going 12 rounds anyway doesnt mean less punches are thrown ,it actually forces the fighters to thromore punches without coasting those extra rounds ,it puts more pressure for them in 12 than 15.......not that 15 really matters look up all the 15 rounders that actually went 15 you will see most dont go past 12.

The concept of less rounds and shorter rounds would make fighters fight harder and faster ,this is the blue print for big knock out boxing promotings and was for the Toughman contests ......Make boxing 10 rounds with 2 minutes each ,you would see knock outs almost always. ,at least by 50%.Throw out the 10/12 ounce gloves and use the less padded 6/8 ounces and you would see an entire new sport .

[billeau2]

You're so dumb i dont know where to begin,lets start with the obvious .......physical strength doesnt apply to punching power ,ALL the things you stated are useful for MMA not boxing ,rock climbing is best for strengthening FINGERS.......the main sport that uses fingers mostly is actually Arm wrestling and wrestling as it gives grip and pinch strength ....i know this you DONT,for OBVIUOS reasons ,one i was a national champ at one time in one of the two .......swimming is the obviuos choice for boxers ...rock climbing is not.Unless you think fingers are used in boxing then i wouldn't do rock climbing ,talk about a waste of time as opposed to the weight strength sessions tailored to boxing that will actually help...

MMA striking is not boxing striking ,you would know this but you dont for OBVIUOS reasons....the MMA style NEEDS physical strength for grappling and to maintain to be able to strike in spurts with hand and legs.....in short i dont have to convince anyone,all they have to do is go through this thread and who posted irrelevant and wrong ones anyway!

Useful sstrength is useful strength it applies to all endevours....Its not MMA, or rock climbing it is the way fighters trained and many train today. You are just too much of a simp to get the idea so you desperately troll for anyone who might buy your stupidity on a stick. All fighters train for useful strength, which is why you see pilates, working with big objects being thrown around, Floyd swinging a hammer....but but thats only in MMA! Dumbazz does Floyd do MMA? Dkd Dempsey or Bauer do MMA when they threw things around to develop muscle strength?

You are truly stupid beyond belief. Boxers also train to develop strength. Thats why they would consider weights in the first place you idiot!

your such an idiot that when someone tries to present an idea using examples that apply across disciplines you try to protest because your brain cannot grok examples that are not specific to your own limited understanding, so you ridicule the notion of speaking intelligently about the subject.

Just because you are a simp does not mean others cannot understand general concepts and examples....go grow a thumb! And stop putting your stupid tinged words in my mouth. I never said anything about weights other than they are not the most efficient means of developing strength when used over long durations....I even explained why but its flying way over your head... Duration is in direct opposition to intensity. Athletes need maximum intensity to exhaust the muscle groups so they have time to apply themselves to their craft.

This was a real problem that florida football coaches dealt with and worked on with Jones and Darcey of Nautilus fame. Some of their ideas revolutionized fitness in solving this problem...what problem have you ever solved?