Welter Robinson vs Mayweather

[SlySlickSmooth]

What we can't quantify in this fight is will. And will plays the most important factor here, what people need to realize is Robinson was THE total package. He could box, counter, and slug with the best.

This is a man who fought up to Light Heavyweight and is a natural Welter.

If you consider Robinson and Floyd anywhere close to equal in terms of skill you have to remember this.. ROBINSON WILL MAKE IT A BRAWL AND DO IT WITH FINESSE. Robinson had no problem shifting into another gear if needed be and I don't think Mayweather would be able to win rounds based on that assumption. It would be closely contested rounds but Robinson's size advantage and aggression will win over the judges and its not like Robinson was some clumsy bum!

When Floyd has gotten hurt we often seem him go and get his respect back from opponents.. that's not going to work with Robinson and if Floyd goes overly defensive he's not going to win rounds that way.

The speed, strength, skill, and tenacity of Robinson is too much for a Welterweight Mayweather.

[billeau2]

I wouldn't pick Mayweather to beat fighters like Robinson or Leonard at welterweight. This is not his peak weight and he would give away too much.

To me that is the key...Floyd's best weight is lower...When I do a scenerio I actually like to assume that both men are at their best weight otherwise its not as interesting.

Would also like to respond to Floyd's choice of opponent, a post that was made here....Leonard also did this! Its not so much that Floyd ducked as that he always seemed to fight an opponent when he had a percieved advantage....age, health, etc. Thats very smart, it comes across as a dud if you are a fan. I don't think we can fault Floyd for avoiding Williams and Margarito. He definitely saw that Cotto had lost the patina of invincability when he took him on! It would have been suicide for Floyd to fight Williams or Margarito at Welter, to big too strong, too long! haha But lets be fair: Guys like Burley were avoided by the great one (Robinson) and the reasons were the same, or similar. Styles do make fights, an addage that I hate but begrudgingly admit to being true.

[The Old LefHook]

To me that is the key...Floyd's best weight is lower...When I do a scenerio I actually like to assume that both men are at their best weight otherwise its not as interesting.

Would also like to respond to Floyd's choice of opponent, a post that was made here....Leonard also did this! Its not so much that Floyd ducked as that he always seemed to fight an opponent when he had a percieved advantage....age, health, etc. Thats very smart, it comes across as a dud if you are a fan. I don't think we can fault Floyd for avoiding Williams and Margarito. He definitely saw that Cotto had lost the patina of invincability when he took him on! It would have been suicide for Floyd to fight Williams or Margarito at Welter, to big too strong, too long! haha But lets be fair: Guys like Burley were avoided by the great one (Robinson) and the reasons were the same, or similar. Styles do make fights, an addage that I hate but begrudgingly admit to being true.

Ahem! When was Robinson supposed to fight Burley? It was not reasonable to expect him to fight Burley in the first two years as a pro when Burley had started fighting four years ahead of him. Burley was big enough to fight as a welterweight in the amateurs. By the time it might have been reasonable for Robinson to face him as a welterweight Burley was already fighting as a middleweight.

The war came, Robinson faked his amneasia and was in the service for about fifteen months. He was still pursuing a welterweight title, not Charley Burley, and had another four years to go on that goal.

By the time Robinson was moving to middleweight Burley was a lightheavyweight and his record was not so good anymore. Burley went downhill pretty fast. By the time Robinson was middleweight champion Burley was shot and had his last fight in 1950.

The years and weights look like they line up, but in truth they do not when you take a closer look. Burley never received a mercy fight the way Hank Armstrong did, that's about it, as far as I can tell. I guess they were not friends.

[RealLifeMovie]

Floyd doesnt have the physicality to compete as a 147lber with the best in that division. Leonard, Hearns, Robinson, Curry, maybe even a guy like Breland, all too long for him. Remember Floyd has a reach of 72'' so he rarely has given away reach. Without his reach advantage he loses a lot of effectiveness because he can be forced back behind a stiff jab and left with less countering opportunities from long range and he doesnt have the size and power to take it too these men.

As a 130/135 lber the only guy I tip against him is Duran. Duran has a skill set that basically rivals Floyds and the style to make him uncomfortable plus power to make him shell up and lose rounds. Sweet Pea would give him a hell of a fight too that could go either way but i think floyds power advantage wins it for him.

Arguello would be interesting but his lack of foot speed probably reduces him to a punchers chance cause the guys that give floyd problems need to be able to limit the amount of space he has whilst throwing with consistency to get him on the defensive. If Arguello has faster feet he would possibly win as he had a great jab and power plus the size to trouble floyd.


love him or hate him floyds a great fighter and from 130-140 theres likely only 5 or less guys throughout history that beat him/give him a truly tough fight.

[joseph5620]

To me that is the key...Floyd's best weight is lower...When I do a scenerio I actually like to assume that both men are at their best weight otherwise its not as interesting.

Would also like to respond to Floyd's choice of opponent, a post that was made here....Leonard also did this! Its not so much that Floyd ducked as that he always seemed to fight an opponent when he had a percieved advantage....age, health, etc. Thats very smart, it comes across as a dud if you are a fan. I don't think we can fault Floyd for avoiding Williams and Margarito. He definitely saw that Cotto had lost the patina of invincability when he took him on! It would have been suicide for Floyd to fight Williams or Margarito at Welter, to big too strong, too long! haha But lets be fair: Guys like Burley were avoided by the great one (Robinson) and the reasons were the same, or similar. Styles do make fights, an addage that I hate but begrudgingly admit to being true.

I wouldn't put e Margarito, Cotto, or Williams in that catagory. They are not on that level. I think Mayweather would have beaten all three by a wide decision.


Mayweather didn't "avoid " any of them for those reasons.

[billeau2]

Ahem! When was Robinson supposed to fight Burley? It was not reasonable to expect him to fight Burley in the first two years as a pro when Burley had started fighting four years ahead of him. Burley was big enough to fight as a welterweight in the amateurs. By the time it might have been reasonable for Robinson to face him as a welterweight Burley was already fighting as a middleweight.

The war came, Robinson faked his amneasia and was in the service for about fifteen months. He was still pursuing a welterweight title, not Charley Burley, and had another four years to go on that goal.

By the time Robinson was moving to middleweight Burley was a lightheavyweight and his record was not so good anymore. Burley went downhill pretty fast. By the time Robinson was middleweight champion Burley was shot and had his last fight in 1950.

The years and weights look like they line up, but in truth they do not when you take a closer look. Burley never received a mercy fight the way Hank Armstrong did, that's about it, as far as I can tell. I guess they were not friends.

I stand corrected. My point, which may, or may not apply to Robinson, is that the charge of ducking can be at times....nebulous.

[billeau2]

I wouldn't put e Margarito, Cotto, or Williams in that catagory. They are not on that level. I think Mayweather would have beaten all three by a wide decision.


Mayweather didn't "avoid " any of them for those reasons.

What I meant to imply was that the charge of ducking is something that can be attributed to virtually any great fighter. I agree that Floyd didn't duck these guys. I think there are certain opponents that are not necessarily able to beat someone but are not a reasonable alternative....I don't think Floyd loses but I think he takes some punishment from Margarito and i think williams is a physical oddity that is always dangerous. In any case these were not good fights for Floyd to take... I used to laugh at people who demanded Floyd fight Margarito...and there were more than a few.

This post I made was not clearly stated...I also used a bad example with Robinson and Burley that Lefty called me on.

[Caught Square]

Ahem! When was Robinson supposed to fight Burley? It was not reasonable to expect him to fight Burley in the first two years as a pro when Burley had started fighting four years ahead of him. Burley was big enough to fight as a welterweight in the amateurs. By the time it might have been reasonable for Robinson to face him as a welterweight Burley was already fighting as a middleweight.

The war came, Robinson faked his amneasia and was in the service for about fifteen months. He was still pursuing a welterweight title, not Charley Burley, and had another four years to go on that goal.

By the time Robinson was moving to middleweight Burley was a lightheavyweight and his record was not so good anymore. Burley went downhill pretty fast. By the time Robinson was middleweight champion Burley was shot and had his last fight in 1950.

The years and weights look like they line up, but in truth they do not when you take a closer look. Burley never received a mercy fight the way Hank Armstrong did, that's about it, as far as I can tell. I guess they were not friends.

See that's a clear double standard, you say Burley was a middleweight by the time it was 'reasonable' for Robinson to fight him at welterweight yet during that time period Robinson fought Lamotta who weighed as a middleweight. So if he could fight Lamotta, he could fight Burley too.

Can't have it both ways, if he never fought a middleweight in Lamotta while at welterweight then that would be a valid way to justify him not fighting Burley.

[Scott9945]

See that's a clear double standard, you say Burley was a middleweight by the time it was 'reasonable' for Robinson to fight him at welterweight yet during that time period Robinson fought Lamotta who weighed as a middleweight. So if he could fight Lamotta, he could fight Burley too.

Can't have it both ways, if he never fought a middleweight in Lamotta while at welterweight then that would be a valid way to justify him not fighting Burley.

My guess is that Robinson made a lot more money for fighting LaMotta then he would have to fight Burley. And for Ray Robinson that made all the difference in the world.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

My guess is that Robinson made a lot more money for fighting LaMotta then he would have to fight Burley. And for Ray Robinson that made all the difference in the world.

Yeah, as Ray Corso always says, it was about making money off the live gate back then. You had to put butts in the seats... Hence why you saw all sorts of ethnic fanbases back then, especially in New York area

Ray vs a black guy isn't going to sell as well as if he was fighting an Italian, ***, etc..