If SRR beat Maxim.

[Anthony342]

In a boxing match? It would be easy work.

Wrestlers can be in good shape but they tend to not take strikes very well. They simply aren't accustomed to it and panic. It's hilarious to watch them curl up into a fetal position. See Brock Lesnar for example.

In a boxing match yes, depends on the rules. If grappling is allowed, boxers react the same way to takedowns, as seen in the early days of those UFC tounaments. Kind of like a turtle on its back.

[ShoulderRoll]

In a boxing match yes, depends on the rules. If grappling is allowed, boxers react the same way to takedowns, as seen in the early days of those UFC tounaments. Kind of like a turtle on its back.

I'm sure boxers would lose to janitors in a toilet cleaning contest too.

But I don't see how that's relevant to boxing or to Ray Robinson fatiguing in record high temperatures or how that takes away from his greatness in any way.

[Anthony342]

I'm sure boxers would lose to janitors in a toilet cleaning contest too.

But I don't see how that's relevant to boxing or to Ray Robinson fatiguing in record high temperatures or how that takes away from his greatness in any way.

Exactly. I don't see why people hold that against Robinson or why people even thought outdoor boxing matches were ever a good idea in the first place.

[billeau2]

Actually, after watching this fight and Walker vs. Loughran, I am actually really surprised that his reptuation didn't suffer.

I suspect a lot of it had to do w/ his later come-back. Especially because the faded Robinson entered into some epic wars w/ some gritty men. That's the kicker. If irony could kill, that would be an atomic bomb. The faded Robinson was like the comeback Sinatra. Still not the best, but that made you love him all the more. Or at least you could finally overlook his warts.

Robinson, a Middleweight, out-right lost to Maxim, s sound but unspectacular Light Heavyweight. Walker, a Welterweight, demanded the absolute best of Loughran and Sharkey, a top 3 Light Heavyweight great, and a Heavyweight champion, respectively.



Not Maxim.

That excuse for Ray is soooo over-played. Did Maxim have an air conditioner in his corner? Was he hooked up to an IV between rounds? Did they not have weatehr forecasts in the 40's?

Robinson grew up in NY. He knows the Mid_Atlantic gets hot. In fact, even though that was an irregularly hot day, he had probably trained and competed under similar circumstances. He lost becuase of his arrogance. We actually, see him adjust early in the fight. But not enough. He continues to keep his edge by being much more kinetic and busy. He chose that plan. He might have also felt he had no other choice.

It's funny he basically built his reputation by exploiting his size against smaller men. But when the shoe was on the other foot, he couldn't make it to the final bell.

I remember when making weight, we used to lock ourselves in cars. Two or three other guys would always be on standby to come get the guy who passed out. It was stupid, but it worked. I learned a lot about myself. It actually gave me nightmares for years. But it was definitely a characted building experience. You learn to trust yourself. Think beyond your body. Not trust the hallucinations. Not fall into the temptations. I often thought I was going to die. Believe me, plenty of fighters have been through that. I bet you and other martial artists you know have done similar things. It's apart of winning. Ray didn't wanna win that night as much as Maxim did.

Look at Dempsey-Willard. Willard didn't have Maxim's craftsmanship, I consent. But the point is, Dempsey empty the chamber and reloaded several times under similar environmental conditions and won a violent, lop-sided, victory.

let's stop blaming the heat.

AS a general rule one can make excuses for victories/loses, or not. There is always a few things that could be mentioned when discussing a fighter's effort.

I do think at the least we should keep that in mind when suggesting a material event was a cause. To be fair Everyone that day was subject to that heat. To also be fair, it had a detrimental effect on Ray Robinson.

I wouldn't use it as a reason to deny Maxim, but it is relevant in a discussion about that fight. When people who know a subject get down to brass tacks, all the particulars are fair game. Its only an excuse if people use a particular as an excuse. I do not think it is an excuse to say the heat had affects that day and had great deal to do with Sugar Ray's performance. We can also say he could have paced himself, Maxim was also subject to the heat as well...its all part of the discussion.

[The Old LefHook]

After Maxim would have come Marciano.

[QueensburyRules]

why people even thought outdoor boxing matches were ever a good idea in the first place.

- -Tony, son, this is the history section, and with few exception most of the 400 years of boxing was fought outdoors.

In fresh air not contaminated by confined cigar and cigarette contamination.

Ever been outside before?

[QueensburyRules]

. Funny thing is, I don't remeber Golovkin ever getting dropped, ever getting backed up by a man half his size, ever allowing his fundamentals completely unravel.

- -No doubt in some far, far away universe this would mean more than a snow cone tumbling into the dirt.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -No doubt in some far, far away universe this would mean more than a snow cone tumbling into the dirt.

I always suspected your were messaging us from another planet.


Greetings from Earth!

[Rusty Tromboni]

After Maxim would have come Marciano.

Or a Light Heavyweight with a pulse,


Again, I don't want to sound like a revisionist, overly critical of Maxim. But was he ever really the best Light HEavyweight? Even top 3?

More likely Ray would have abandoned the diviison, rather than having to face someone like Moore.

The names absent from his Welterweight and Middleweight tenure are strange. I don't want to accuse him of dodging the best. And I don't think anyone can prove either way. (He certainly doesn't have the Harry Greb, Mickey Walker, Jimmy McLarnin ambition about him.) But the absence of certain names does seem suspicious.

It would appear out of character, then, to suggest RObinson would want any part of Marciano.

[Rusty Tromboni]

AS a general rule one can make excuses for victories/loses, or not. There is always a few things that could be mentioned when discussing a fighter's effort.

I do think at the least we should keep that in mind when suggesting a material event was a cause. To be fair Everyone that day was subject to that heat. To also be fair, it had a detrimental effect on Ray Robinson.

I wouldn't use it as a reason to deny Maxim, but it is relevant in a discussion about that fight. When people who know a subject get down to brass tacks, all the particulars are fair game. Its only an excuse if people use a particular as an excuse. I do not think it is an excuse to say the heat had affects that day and had great deal to do with Sugar Ray's performance. We can also say he could have paced himself, Maxim was also subject to the heat as well...its all part of the discussion.

Fair enough.

Or maybe it was just karma.

Again, people call Robinson the best ever for what? I really do like his performances. Probably the best ones, never caught on tape, were even more impressive still (though I think that's exaggerated). His style and flash made people turn up and open their wallets. And I really think that is actually the legacy we've inherited.

But really, compare him to Mickey Walker and Harry Greb, and are you impressed with his record? Sure, the performances were flashier, but the opposition was vastly inferior. Can you imagine Greb or Walker losing to Maxim!?