Why have modern fighters not evolved to be better than SRR

[them_apples]

Pele is routinely considered the greatest footballer ever.

Do you mean Usain Bolt as he is now but simply running with Jesse Owen era running shoes, clothing and running track? If so then I think he would go under 10 seconds, but he'd never get close to his world record of 9.58 and I doubt he'd be able to break 9.9.

The increase in running times over the decades in the 100 metres sprint are caused by a variety of things, the equipment is certainly part of the story. Running tracks are 'faster' now than they were in 1936, running shoes and clothes also allow for fasting times. Technological progress has helped in other ways, not just with helping to improve fitness and bodily strength but also in medicine. If Usain was born in 1913 like Jesse Owens then due to disease there is a good chance Bolt wouldn't have grown to 6'5".

Boxing has probably seen less progress than most sports, mainly because the fundamental equipment used during fights have not progressed in such a way that it improves performance although I think the improvements in refereeing and things like thumbless gloves has made fights fairer than in the past. Boxers are definitely stronger than they were in the past, partly because they have access to creatine (legal) and of course steroids. The improvements in strength are certainly evident in the knockout ratios. Robinson was one of the very hardest punchers in his era, today he probably would still be considered powerful but just not as close to the top of the pile.

How so? back in the day you had to damn near kill a guy to get a stoppage, they stop fights now from anything. Also back in the day boxers were tough! they could take a hit and had heart - plenty of fighters these days don't get hit much in camp, spar less and throw less.

Creatine doesn't help boxing, it is mainly a bodybuilder tool but was experimented with when it first came out.

I haven't seen anything that say athletes in boxing are stronger now, they have to make weight classes. The second day weigh in allows for a more healthy recovery, but rehydrating is nothing new. Duran and Hearns would cut a lot of weight. I can wake up in the morning and not drink any water and save 7 lbs just like that. The best athletes in boxing like Pac and Floyd only cut a few lbs, the others lose the fight on the scale and lack the stamina in the fight.

in fact weights are probably the most overrated aspect of boxing. I've boxed only as an am, but let me tell you working as a mover pulling heavy **** up stairs strengthens the body in a lot more functional way than weights ever could, this includes deadlifts and squats - which really heavily on technique that you will never use in boxing.

[Japanese Boxing]

Mike Silver??? You mean that fine unbiased historian, in whose book "The Arc of Boxing" we can find quotes like:


Hagler could not beat Rocky Graziano. And believe me, Graziano was no great fighter.

Lennox Lewis was a very ordinary fighter. Luis Firpo would have destroyed him.

Tami Mauriello at 190 pounds would go out and find Lennox Lewis's chin.

I have no doubt that Tommy Loughran at 185 pounds could outpoint Mike Tyson.

It's laughable to think of Pernell Whitaker in the same ring with Lou Ambers.

and on and on and on...


So if Mr. Silver claims there were more than twice as many boxers 'back in the day', when there were REAL fighters... I should take his word for it? Is that what you're telling me?

You realize one is explaining the amount of active fighters, and what you said was just some guys opinion right? I can't say in my opinion there are 12 billion Native Americans left in world.

[Humean]

How so? back in the day you had to damn near kill a guy to get a stoppage, they stop fights now from anything. Also back in the day boxers were tough! they could take a hit and had heart - plenty of fighters these days don't get hit much in camp, spar less and throw less.

Creatine doesn't help boxing, it is mainly a bodybuilder tool but was experimented with when it first came out.

I haven't seen anything that say athletes in boxing are stronger now, they have to make weight classes. The second day weigh in allows for a more healthy recovery, but rehydrating is nothing new. Duran and Hearns would cut a lot of weight. I can wake up in the morning and not drink any water and save 7 lbs just like that. The best athletes in boxing like Pac and Floyd only cut a few lbs, the others lose the fight on the scale and lack the stamina in the fight.

in fact weights are probably the most overrated aspect of boxing. I've boxed only as an am, but let me tell you working as a mover pulling heavy **** up stairs strengthens the body in a lot more functional way than weights ever could, this includes deadlifts and squats - which really heavily on technique that you will never use in boxing.

There is absolutely no way that the changes in knockout ratios over time can be completely explained by the fact that referees stop fighters quicker now than they used to. For sure it can certainly explain some of the difference, i'm in wholehearted agreement with that but do you actually realize how large the differences are? See my next post to show you the differences.

Fighters were not somehow tougher in say the 1940s as they are now, they fought in far tougher times but that is a different thing.

Creatine is not only a bodybuilder tool, it is used in a whole host of sports and has been for quite a while, and for good reason as it helps build strength.

Do you think boxing exists in some alternative universe to other sports? If you look at other sports they have certainly got stronger over time, it is apparent in the improvements in performance over time, just look at the more strength orientated sports to see clearer about that in regards to increases in strength. Gains in a number of sports have levelled off somewhat since around the 80s, there were big advancements in performance made during the 60s, 70s and 80s.

You could probably build strength without using the weights at the gym but other successful methods will work on the same principles.

You realize one is explaining the amount of active fighters, and what you said was just some guys opinion right? I can't say in my opinion there are 12 billion Native Americans left in world.

I think Bundana was trying to illustrate how untrustworthy an author Mike Silver is. Those particular opinions of Mike Silver reveal a man not well attuned to reality.

[Humean]

I picked what I think you could consider the top 20 best fighters of the 1930s with the top 20 best of 00s and compared their KO to wins ratios (I used this rather than KO to fights ratios to be fairer to the older fighters). You can disagree with some of my particular choices but the point still stands.

30s
Joe Louis 79%
Max Schmeling 71%
Henry Armstrong 67%
John Henry Lewis 59%
Fred Apostoli 51%
Marcel Thil 48%
Freddie Steele 47%
Panama Al Brown 46%
Jackie Fields 43%
Battling Battalino 40%
Jack Kid Berg 39%
Benny Lynch 39%
Kid Chocolate 38%
Jimmy McLarnin 38%
Tony Canzoneri 32%
Barney Ross 31%
Lou Ambers 31%
Billy Conn 23%
Freddie Miller 22%
Maxie Rosenbloom 9%

00s
Vitali Klitschko 91%
Rafael Marquez 90%
Jose Luis Castillo 86%
Wladimir Klitschko 84%
Shane Mosley 83%
Miguel Cotto 82%
Israel Vazquez 73%
Juan Manuel Marquez 71%
Veeraphol Sahaprom 70%
Joe Calzaghe 70%
Erik Morales 69%
Manny Pacquiao 67%
Marco Antonio Barrera 66%
Joel Casamayor 58%
Bernard Hopkins 58%
Floyd Mayweather 55%
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam 52%
Winky Wright 49%
Masamori Tokuyama 25%
Ivan Calderon 17%


30s median average 40%
00s median average 70%

Quite the difference isn't it? I have plenty other examples to show the same thing, I can post that some other time.

[The Old LefHook]

If they are stronger now it is due to their blenders and needles, so who cares if they are stronger if they are cheating? Will people please wake and and realize you do not build muscle like many of these guys without chemical help?

Most top athletes in most sports are on or have been on something they knew was illegal. Wake up.

[The Old LefHook]

Boxers built like Cleveland Williams where every muscle shouts definition used to be a true rarity, now they are common. I believe everyone in power sports in the old days would have had a body like that if it was possible to obtain. It wasn't, not even with weight training. People have worked out with weights for a long time. Joe Weider and Charles Atlas had their ads in magazines seventy years ago. I guarantee you they grace the inside back pages of many of Sonny's magazine collection. Even those two were not nearly as defined as many of today's boxers.

If Charles Atlas and Joe Weider could not get to where any Tom, **** & Harry now traipses, why do you think that is? Maybe the weights are better these days, eh?

It is not that hard to see who is roided up in boxing. They have their shirts off. There is natural muscle and their is juiced muscle. There are ways to tell--use your eyes. Even the most naturally muscled mesomorphs still look like they are in the right body.

Think Bob Sapp. It is unnatural, right? Easy, right? I do not think their is a juiced deltoid out there that can fool me.

[LoadedWraps]

Because the talent pool has shrunk and the boxing trainer pool has as well. We've been over this guys.

[classicbuzzbox]

Pele is routinely considered the greatest footballer ever.

Do you mean Usain Bolt as he is now but simply running with Jesse Owen era running shoes, clothing and running track? If so then I think he would go under 10 seconds, but he'd never get close to his world record of 9.58 and I doubt he'd be able to break 9.9.

The increase in running times over the decades in the 100 metres sprint are caused by a variety of things, the equipment is certainly part of the story. Running tracks are 'faster' now than they were in 1936, running shoes and clothes also allow for fasting times. Technological progress has helped in other ways, not just with helping to improve fitness and bodily strength but also in medicine. If Usain was born in 1913 like Jesse Owens then due to disease there is a good chance Bolt wouldn't have grown to 6'5".

Boxing has probably seen less progress than most sports, mainly because the fundamental equipment used during fights have not progressed in such a way that it improves performance although I think the improvements in refereeing and things like thumbless gloves has made fights fairer than in the past. Boxers are definitely stronger than they were in the past, partly because they have access to creatine (legal) and of course steroids. The improvements in strength are certainly evident in the knockout ratios. Robinson was one of the very hardest punchers in his era, today he probably would still be considered powerful but just not as close to the top of the pile.

This post is a disgrace. I don't come on boxingscene to read logical assessments that make perfect sense backed up by visual evidenence we can actually watch on tv or youtube. There simply isn't enough waxing on here about mythical fighters that can be seen in some footage looking bumified against even more bumified semi pro fighters. At least half of the guys SRR beat could lay rail or weld ship hulls and that is no mean feat.

Valentines day massacre? SRRs power was so amazing that it only took 100 flush shots to Lamottas face per round for 3 straight rounds to get a TKO stoppage. You could tell the technical way Lamotta uses a slightly different part of his face to stop incoming firepower helped and is testament to the skills of a bygone era. These modern boxers could learn a thing or two about these elite face block skills of yesteryear. I'm talking to you Provodnikov.

Not sure what I mean. Here you go soft modern boxers and fans, witness truly elite Lamotta killer speed, skills and the deft face block technique and the absolutely thunderous hands of Sugar 10000000 shots Robinson:



If you can't handle the extreme pace go to 48.50 to see Lamotta use full face block mode to nullify thunderhands SRR. And by the way, this DEFINITELY ISNT some glorified sparring session, these were the top guys GOT IT. What'll you have?

[Bundana]

Because the talent pool has shrunk and the boxing trainer pool has as well. We've been over this guys.

Ah, yes... the ever-dwindling talent pool! The myth lives on...

[Suckmedry]

The bottom line is no one today even comes close to the all round abilities of Robinson, particularly his punch. How many top level fights end in a genuine one punch KO nowadays? Robinson knocked out gene fullmer with a left hook as he was moving backwards ffs. Maruqez over Manny is the only legit one punch KO thats immediately coming to my mind. Martinez-Williams too actually.