The young/prime Mike Tyson

[jiopsi]

I know several friends who share this view too, but I'd confidently pick Ali over prime Tyson. The problem with prime Tyson was that he wasn't an incredible 12 round fighter. His technique was terrific and his workrate in the early rounds was exceptional, but this often did drop off after rounds 5 & 6.

Prime Tyson ended up going the distance with Green, Tillis, Bonecrusher, Tucker and Ruddock (these opponents won the odd round too!); but none of them came close to Ali in terms of skills, distance stamina or punch resistance. So I'd consider a Tyson stoppage win unlikely. I think he would give prime Ali a real fright for a few rounds, but would probably be picked off to a competitive decision loss.

Tillis was a step-up fighter for Tyson, first one he did the distance so he was cautious, Smith were running for his life in the fight, Green won one round? Only Tucker but up something I think, but he was then unbeaten champion (34-0). The way Tyson cleaned up the division, and then the way he continued to crush people, Biggs, Holmes, Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno, Williams makes me think he was unbeatable. I've never seen such aura in boxing. He was clearly done by his personal life and the way he stopped training and direspecting everyone who helped him there. There was 0% of the old Tyson against Douglas.

And the same works otherway around, Frazier beat Ali, and Tyson in his prime was pretty much better in every possible way.

[Sugarj]

Tillis was a step-up fighter for Tyson, first one he did the distance so he was cautious, Smith were running for his life in the fight, Green won one round? Only Tucker but up something I think, but he was then unbeaten champion (34-0). The way Tyson cleaned up the division, and then the way he continued to crush people, Biggs, Holmes, Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno, Williams makes me think he was unbeatable. I've never seen such aura in boxing. He was clearly done by his personal life and the way he stopped training and direspecting everyone who helped him there. There was 0% of the old Tyson against Douglas.

And the same works otherway around, Frazier beat Ali, and Tyson in his prime was pretty much better in every possible way.

I respect a good view and as you say Frazier beat Ali in 1971. In my opinion prime Tyson as well as several other ATG heavyweights would have a good chance of beating the Ali of 1971 who met Frazier also.

That was not prime Ali though, 1966/67 Ali was a fair bit better!

Tyson was terrific between 1986 and 90, but I wouldn't have said he was any better in say 1988 than 1987 for example. I don't think the Tyson that crushed Holmes or Spinks in 1988 would have necessarily not gone the distance with Bonecrusher or Tucker if those fights had been made later rather than earlier.

Basically, my point is..... prime Ali's ability to absorb punishment coupled with his excellent defensive skills of his prime almost certainly means we are looking at a distance fight. Quite simply, Tyson was not an amazing distance fighter. Prime Ali really was a huge step above Tyson's title challengers. If a couple could last the distance with Tyson (avoiding knockdowns too), it is more than likely Ali would not only do this, but would win more rounds down the stretch too.....

Only an opinion, as I've already said......I know plenty of folks who would pick prime Tyson over prime Ali. Not many on this forum though!

[joseph5620]

I've always viewed Tyson as a frontrunner. He looked great offensively but once he faced serious adversity he failed everytime. Quitting, biting, and other blatant fouls. That's how he responded to it. That's also what separates him from other great heavyweight fighters from the past.

[Sugarj]

I've always viewed Tyson as a frontrunner. He looked great offensively but once he faced serious adversity he failed everytime. Quitting, biting, and other blatant fouls. That's how he responded to it. That's also what separates him from other great heavyweight fighters from the past.

Bit of a cliché that a lot of people seem to buy into these days; he only displayed this behaviour post prison.

Plenty of opponents in the 80s and early 90s before incarceration stood up to Tyson and quite simply were beaten by a superior heavyweight. Against Douglas he took his beating like a man and never stopped trying or resorting to fouls.

[sonnyboyx2]

I've always viewed Tyson as a frontrunner. He looked great offensively but once he faced serious adversity he failed everytime. Quitting, biting, and other blatant fouls. That's how he responded to it. That's also what separates him from other great heavyweight fighters from the past.

Typical JAB comments...

[beez721]

Typical JAB comments...

there is some truth to what he said tho

[joseph5620]

Bit of a cliché that a lot of people seem to buy into these days; he only displayed this behaviour post prison.

Plenty of opponents in the 80s and early 90s before incarceration stood up to Tyson and quite simply were beaten by a superior heavyweight. Against Douglas he took his beating like a man and never stopped trying or resorting to fouls.

It's not really cliche when it actually happened.

Tyson was 23 years old against Buster Douglas and in his prime. I know I'll get countless excuses about how Tyson didn train but the facts are that it happened. Even if he didnt train that's a perfect example of how he lacked the same mental toughnes other champions displayed.


The first time Tyson fought somebody that actually punched him back without fear he folded. Nothing in his pre prison or post prison days demonstrated that he had the fortitude to fight through it without quitting, losing, or commiting ridiculous fouls. Tyson pity parties aren't going to change that fact.

Better yet, when was Tyson ever in a very tough fight that he fought through and won or even finished? Ali, Louis, Marciano,, and many other greats have a list of those type of fights. Tyson doesn't and that's a major factor in him being a frontrunner.

[billeau2]

It's not really cliche when it actually happened.

Tyson was 23 years old against Buster Douglas and in his prime. I know I'll get countless excuses about how Tyson didn train but the facts are that it happened. Even if he didnt train that's a perfect example of how he lacked the same mental toughnes other champions displayed.


The first time Tyson fought somebody that actually punched him back without fear he folded. Nothing in his pre prison or post prison days demonstrated that he had the fortitude to fight through it without quitting, losing, or commiting ridiculous fouls. Tyson pity parties aren't going to change that fact.

Better yet, when was Tyson ever in a very tough fight that he fought through and won or even finished? Ali, Louis, Marciano,, and many others greats have a list of those type of fights. Tyson doesn't and that's a major factor in him being a frontrunner.

I would give him the Razor Ruddock fight series....i know it is not obvious, but there are times in the ebb and flow of those fights that one can see Tyson sort of saying "jeez i knocked this guy down, I battered him and hes still coming!" Truth is Ruddock was having some success against Tyson in spots persevearing and one can see Tyson occasionally getting hit and not being happy about it.

I don't think it would make one quit but there were some gut checks in that fight (if you look carefully at the action). To be fair we are obviously not talking Gatti Ward type determination here! haha

[joseph5620]

I would give him the Razor Ruddock fight series....i know it is not obvious, but there are times in the ebb and flow of those fights that one can see Tyson sort of saying "jeez i knocked this guy down, I battered him and hes still coming!" Truth is Ruddock was having some success against Tyson in spots persevearing and one can see Tyson occasionally getting hit and not being happy about it.

I don't think it would make one quit but there were some gut checks in that fight (if you look carefully at the action). To be fair we are obviously not talking Gatti Ward type determination here! haha

Good points. I can see it that way too.

[Sugarj]

It's not really cliche when it actually happened.

Tyson was 23 years old against Buster Douglas and in his prime. I know I'll get countless excuses about how Tyson didn train but the facts are that it happened. Even if he didnt train that's a perfect example of how he lacked the same mental toughnes other champions displayed.


The first time Tyson fought somebody that actually punched him back without fear he folded. Nothing in his pre prison or post prison days demonstrated that he had the fortitude to fight through it without quitting, losing, or commiting ridiculous fouls. Tyson pity parties aren't going to change that fact.

Better yet, when was Tyson ever in a very tough fight that he fought through and won or even finished? Ali, Louis, Marciano,, and many other greats have a list of those type of fights. Tyson doesn't and that's a major factor in him being a frontrunner.

I'd take another look at my post. I never offered any comment about Tyson's preparation for Douglas.......just that he took his beating like a man.

He didn't fold against Douglas, he was simply beaten by a better man on the night. Does every guy that takes a sustained beating for 10 rounds and gets brutally knocked out fall victim to your 'fold' claim?

Tyson did not try to foul his way out or quit on his stool, he even managed to score an 8th round knock down after taking a serious beating for several previous rounds. Nobody without a serious dollop of mental strength would have continued to take the merciless beating that Douglas was administering round after round!

The knockout combination by Douglas was devastating, but even then Tyson did try to get up!

I'm not making any excuses for Tyson's behaviour in the ring post prison. He had become a different man then.

As for Tyson triumphing over adversity, check out both Razor Ruddock fights. Tillis, Tucker and Thomas certainly won a few rounds apiece in spirited showings. Ribalta was no pushover either!

To beat Tyson you had to have a hell of a lot more than the mental strength to stand up to him.....you actually had to be pretty evenly matched too!