Why todays era is better than past eras. Discussion.

[juggernaut666]

I think you've really answered that question yourself, going by your logic;

- How many punches was landed in a fight
- How many punches was landed in a round
- How many punches dodged in a round
- How many punches dodged in a fight
- How many powerpunches was thrown in a round
- How many powerpunches was thrown in a fight
- How fast a world title fight was over
- How fast a regional title fight was over

I could keep going...

Those are not records those are statistics per fight , you dont go in a fight and say im going to break a rrecord ... you fight to your opposition and stradegy. The only logical statistics are HW are far bigger now ,so again you have a discrepancy of how the fight game has changed. Overall all boxers probably do more of everything you listed for the most part,since there is less rounds and clinches as the old days had with the advent of getting rid of smaller gloves.

[D-MiZe]

Those are not records those are statistics per fight , you dont go in a fight and say im going to break a rrecord ... you fight to your opposition and stradegy. The only logical statistics are HW are far bigger now ,so again you have a discrepancy of how the fight game has changed.

Are you being dumb on deliberate?

Every record is a statistic.

Also, here's a guy fighting this weekend who's going into his fight aiming to break a record;

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news...r-ryan-burnett

[Anthony342]

Wlad would have had little success at the time of losing without Steward the same can be said to Lewis who was k.od by Stewards fighter. However without either Steward doesn't shine either.Both as ive always said goes hand in hand.You are really only as good as you click with the trainer.

Yep, speaking of football, Bill Bellichick didn't have much success as a head coach until Tom Brady became a starter for him. Michael Jordan didn't win any NBA championships until Phil Jackson took over as head coach for Doug Collins. Tom Coughlin was considered pretty good, but not great, until he had Eli Manning and won 2 Super Bowls with the Giants. And Joe Torre had a losing record as a baseball manager until he managed the Yankees to 4 World Series titles and 5 AL Pennants and many more division titles. So both trainer/coach/manager and fighter/players are pretty damn important.

[Elroy1]

Of course ranking boxers is more difficult across eras as it doesn't deal with times, distances, speeds and resistance overcome, only win/loss, KO/non-KO as Jugs pointed out already.

But the ojective gauges are there if one cares to look.

- Modern atheltes are stronger
- Modern athletes are lb4lb faster
- Modern athletes are much fitter (in terms of VO2max)

Guys often confuse speed as being faster in the past but this is a confusion of comparing a past cruiser (like Ali) to a modern Super (like Fury). OF course the correct comparison would be past 210ler (Ali) to current 210lber (Haye) and here we see the modern guy lows the ancient one out the water like a ferrari vs a model T ford.

Guys also confuse past era athletes as fitter, usually citing 2 things,

- Higher punch output (debatable)
- More rounds

OF course for reasons completely exposed many times previous, all these are obviously lame and it is obvious that because of the increased "weight" and "intensity" and "agility" of boxers and performance today, modern boxers in fact expend far more energy than past era cement footed punch bags of the past or the featherfisted runners.

The rounds argument being one of the most ridiculous cop outs- any boxer of any weight can fight any number of rounds. Whether they can in fact or not depends on the opponent! And a heftier opponent can sap far more energy than a lighter one! Besides, the total energy requirement between an otherwise equivalent 12 and 15 rounder is negligible from straith math, even without considering the above.

So we have conditioning covered,

There can be absolutely no argument regarding the objective increase in athletic quality of boxers.

Likewise, stat wise- there are more boxers today than ever before for the sieve of competition, the top guys of which have much better records on average than their past counterparts as has the average boxer. They are also much heftier (HW) and far more ripped at limit weight as WELL as heftier (because of stripping and later weigh ins.)

It's clear, and we haven't even ADDRESSED the explosion in skill levels yet!

[Anthony342]

The eighties was a very good era, guys were very technically sound. Sometimes limiting a technique allows one to develop it. The Gracies, by reducing grappling to two positions (the mount and the guard) and learning how to work everything off those positions (limiting) allowed them to gain mastery. This also limited them in virtually every other area of the martial arts...but it was a great ring strategy for a long time. So in simplicity comes proficiency.

Until one makes the adjustments to negate those strategies and then one must evolve, which they didn't. But their offspring have, by training boxing and kickboxing as well, but have not competed as much MMA since the old days.

[Anthony342]

The Gracies are a perfect example of where video technology comes into play...fighters began studying the sytem and there fights many in brazil and figured them out,and soon the system was easily nuetrilized.They had to adapt and even when they did they had a few L's along the way....Renzo and Royce lost to Hughs. just one example of how evolution in combat works.Without it ,they would have defeated practically everyone.

Yep. And don't forget Sakuraba beat Royce, Renzo, Royler and Ryan Gracie, before losing to them twice by decision. Including that insane 90 minute marathon win by attrition over Royce the first time. MMA itself has caused martial arts to more quickly evolve, as we now get to see first hand the effectiveness of any martial art in a ring or cage.

[juggernaut666]

Are you being dumb on deliberate?

Every record is a statistic.

Also, here's a guy fighting this weekend who's going into his fight aiming to break a record;

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news...r-ryan-burnett

You can only fight what your opposition gives you ,fighter A can beat fighter C soundly while fighter B can struggled with fighter D ,but D was better than C...the fight game is way complex to look at statistics it means nothing in boxing its the quality of opponents that count and thats of opinion so records mean little unlike olympic sports where you go there to break records ,personal records dont mean much either it doesnt mean anything really .

Statistics in sports are used to determine who the favorite is not anything about records being broke ,records that are broke are written in the history books ,how meaningful is it depends on personal opinion this is common sense !

[juggernaut666]

Yep. And don't forget Sakuraba beat Royce, Renzo, Royler and Ryan Gracie, before losing to them twice by decision. Including that insane 90 minute marathon win by attrition over Royce the first time. MMA itself has caused martial arts to more quickly evolve, as we now get to see first hand the effectiveness of any martial art in a ring or cage.

Even though MMA is controlled environment what you say is basically true , Royce actually changed the rules in his fight with Sakuraba and made the fight longer ,had he not done that he was up on points ,it cost him the fight.

[juggernaut666]

Of course ranking boxers is more difficult across eras as it doesn't deal with times, distances, speeds and resistance overcome, only win/loss, KO/non-KO as Jugs pointed out already.

But the ojective gauges are there if one cares to look.

- Modern atheltes are stronger
- Modern athletes are lb4lb faster
- Modern athletes are much fitter (in terms of VO2max)

Guys often confuse speed as being faster in the past but this is a confusion of comparing a past cruiser (like Ali) to a modern Super (like Fury). OF course the correct comparison would be past 210ler (Ali) to current 210lber (Haye) and here we see the modern guy lows the ancient one out the water like a ferrari vs a model T ford.

Guys also confuse past era athletes as fitter, usually citing 2 things,

- Higher punch output (debatable)
- More rounds

OF course for reasons completely exposed many times previous, all these are obviously lame and it is obvious that because of the increased "weight" and "intensity" and "agility" of boxers and performance today, modern boxers in fact expend far more energy than past era cement footed punch bags of the past or the featherfisted runners.

The rounds argument being one of the most ridiculous cop outs- any boxer of any weight can fight any number of rounds. Whether they can in fact or not depends on the opponent! And a heftier opponent can sap far more energy than a lighter one! Besides, the total energy requirement between an otherwise equivalent 12 and 15 rounder is negligible from straith math, even without considering the above.

So we have conditioning covered,

There can be absolutely no argument regarding the objective increase in athletic quality of boxers.

Likewise, stat wise- there are more boxers today than ever before for the sieve of competition, the top guys of which have much better records on average than their past counterparts as has the average boxer. They are also much heftier (HW) and far more ripped at limit weight as WELL as heftier (because of stripping and later weigh ins.)

It's clear, and we haven't even ADDRESSED the explosion in skill levels yet!

And i dont know how anyone would argue that, i would say could but theres always those few who lag behind .

[Anthony342]

What records are to be broken in boxing? Its amatter of winning or losing ,not how fast you run or how many points you score or balls you catch or how much you lift . You have quick footed 6'9 giants ,guys who fight until 50 and so forth today ...Ali looked like an old man by mid 30's ,most past fighters best days pre 90's were about 31 . Boxings about the L or the W.

No one has surpassed Joe Louis' 25 lineal/undisputed title defenses. Wlad still needs the WBC belt to be undisputed and has 11 lineal defenses, but looks to be getting to the end of his career. Ali still has the record of winning the lineal heavyweight title 3 times. Holyfield won it twice, along with IBF 3 times and WBA 4 times. A quick Google search tells me a boxer named Lamar Clark has the most consecutive knockouts, although I could see Golovkin or Kovalev possibly breaking that. Chavez will probably be the last to retire with over 100 wins for a long time, unless another fighter stays as busy, most likely not an American. My point is not all records are easily broken in boxing, like in track or swimming. Hell, even with PEDs, it still took a while for someone to hit more than 61 homers in a season and Hack Wilson still holds the single season RBI record with something like 190 and Joe Dimaggio still has the hitting streak record. Just goes to show, even with better athletes today, not all records are so easy to break.