Why todays era is better than past eras. Discussion.

[imperial1]

I'd much rather have Futch, Steward, and Arce than Hunter, Roach, and Garcia.

Futch built Bowe and Frazier from the ground up. Steward built Hearns from the ground up.

All day every day

[Elroy1]

I'd much rather have Futch, Steward, and Arce than Hunter, Roach, and Garcia.

Just compare who they trained:

Futch: Bowe, Frazier, Michael Spinks.

What was Spinks really? Ok one of the etter LHW's not THE est.

Bowe? Serious short comings there.

And as for Frazier!

I would say that kind of proves MY point more than anything else.

The guy could hardly even bloody box!

If I were a so called "great trainer", I would e sweeping that failure under the rug.

[juggernaut666]

All day every day

Back in the old days boxers had to rely on the trainer a lot more,since film of the opponeet was limited...really the fighter is what makes the trainer look great in most cases...when you have a duo of trainer/fighter of equal ability...like Cus/Tyson Steward/Wlad/lewis Bowe/Futch...etc it works. Louis had Blackburn who was considered genius simply he knew how to throw a real jab and use feints while showing Louis how to counter punch when someone misses a punch,....this is standard boxing today.



I would say the best trainer of all time just because he knew ALL the breakdowns and how to incoprporate someones strengths is Cus. Guys like Dundee were second rate compared to him ...modern ones after such as Atlas and Rooney also became successful but neither hasd a Tyson fighter after Tyson....Rooney had Pazienza and Atlas had Moorer

were the trainers better? Well they were more important since in comparison it was a dark age where fighters jknew little about there opponent and so forth.does this make them better?i don't really think so,tyoday fighters do much more studying as do the trainers...one does not need to be famous to be a good trainer,they do need that fighter though,Vitali is the best example of this ...who was his trainer? I don't even know some Russian guy? And he barley lost a round due to his style and size...then you have Steward who made Wlad basically into as unbeatable for him as he could get. Yes different types of trainers of the past knew somewhat the game better ,but that's only one example.Futch with Frazier is another,heres a guy who didn't really teach frazier to step away and work angles really,which hurt him in the long run.then came Bowe and made him into a versatile everything fighter b/c he had a superior fighter who can do more than swarm..many trainers are good and actually know the sport as much they grow with it.

[imperial1]

Back in the old days boxers had to rely on the trainer a lot more,since film of the opponeet was limited...really the fighter is what makes the trainer look great in most cases...when you have a duo of trainer/fighter of equal ability...like Cus/Tyson Steward/Wlad/lewis Bowe/Futch...etc it works. Louis had Blackburn who was considered genius simply he knew how to throw a real jab and use feints while showing Louis how to counter punch when someone misses a punch,....this is standard boxing today.



I would say the best trainer of all time just because he knew ALL the breakdowns and how to incoprporate someones strengths is Cus. Guys like Dundee were second rate compared to him ...modern ones after such as Atlas and Rooney also became successful but neither hasd a Tyson fighter after Tyson....Rooney had Pazienza and Atlas had Moorer

were the trainers better? Well they were more important since in comparison it was a dark age where fighters jknew little about there opponent and so forth.does this make them better?i don't really think so,tyoday fighters do much more studying as do the trainers...one does not need to be famous to be a good trainer,they do need that fighter though,Vitali is the best example of this ...who was his trainer? I don't even know some Russian guy? And he barley lost a round due to his style and size...then you have Steward who made Wlad basically into as unbeatable for him as he could get. Yes different types of trainers of the past knew somewhat the game better ,but that's only one example....many trainers are good and actually know the sport as much they grow with it.

Glad you brought up Wlad how much of his success can you attribute to Steward ? The same can be said with LL ..Activity also plays a big part I mean what I think also helps Wlad is that he is constantly fighting ..Guys today don't fight as often I also blame trainers and the business side for that

[billeau2]

How do you reckon Joe Louis vs Mike Tyson would unfold?

I tend to think Tyson at his best could compete with any heavyweight on any given day, but he could also be beat, or neutralized. Style wise Ali would have been a big problem.

There are tapes of early Louis before he became such a stalker and he had very quick feet. Louis also fought with the same intensity all rounds, so if he makes it past the fifth round or so, Tyson might have stamina problems. The early part of the fight Where Tyson is unrelenting might be a problem for Louis but hold that thought for a moment.

The reason its so hard to predict these things is because there are so many variables... Tyson had an incredible attack but Louis could move and he could return fire. Larry Holmes was able to fight Mike off for a while...but Holmes, old, or young, did not have the artillery to keep Mike honest did he? What does Tyson do when he gets countered hard? does he keep attacking? does he overwhelm Louis? And what fights can we look at for precedent?

I can't think of a fighter that louis fought that compares to Tyson. marciano was more like Frazier, and the version of Joe he fought had a lot to do with his sucess...he just could not pull the trigger anymore. Tyson also never really fought a pure puncher like Louis. We do know that when Holyfield moved foward into Mike, it gave him problems. Louis would be doing some movement of this type, but did he have the strength that holly had? Holly had to push Tyson on to his heels to neutralize him.

If we look at Tunney versus Dempsey it gives us perhaps some more information. Most people would never believe Tunney would last with Dempsey. What Tunney could do was to punch accurately. Louis was a tremendously accurate puncher. Throwing a good jab alone seldom kept Tyson off of you... Even Douglas went down trying to depend on the extended jab...and he used this punch superbly.

Tyson, with power in both hands, did not need to set to throw his punches, so he could pursue you..It did not matter what side you went on of his. With that said, a guy like Holly, who was a good solid puncher with great resolve, kept Tyson at bay with his punches. Tyson never faced a guy like Louis who was a much more accurate and powerful puncher than even Holyfield...of course a better version of Tyson would do better against holly....So many things come into play when predicting a fight like this.

People automatically assume Tyson would be the aggressor, but if he went after Louis, Louis would be punching back, trying to counter, more than trying to avoid Tyson...keep this in mind. Either guy to connected first with a big shot would have a tremendous advantage, being that they were both great finishers.

So who knows who wins?

[VG_Addict]

What about rugby or NFL players? Are modern ones better than past?

[juggernaut666]

Glad you brought up Wlad how much of his success can you attribute to Steward ? The same can be said with LL ..Activity also plays a big part I mean what I think also helps Wlad is that he is constantly fighting ..Guys today don't fight as often I also blame trainers and the business side for that

Wlad would have had little success at the time of losing without Steward the same can be said to Lewis who was k.od by Stewards fighter. However without either Steward doesn't shine either.Both as ive always said goes hand in hand.You are really only as good as you click with the trainer.

[juggernaut666]

What about rugby or NFL players? Are modern ones better than past?

By far, just look at the quarterback positions how they play....are they as tough? No...but that's b/c the rule changes...

[imperial1]

Wlad would have had little success at the time of losing without Steward the same can be said to Lewis who was k.od by Stewards fighter. However without either Steward doesn't shine either.Both as ive always said goes hand in hand.You are really only as good as you click with the trainer.

Agreed I look at the Jermain Taylor Steward pairing that didn't work out to well..

Let's look at the Bradley situation let's see how much he improves with Atlas now ..Chemistry is key that's certain but having a trainer that can strategize on the fly also helps

[VG_Addict]

By far, just look at the quarterback positions how they play....are they as tough? No...but that's b/c the rule changes...

What about the other positions?