The Duran that beat Leonard and Palimino

[f15bone]

That second fight was close when Duran quit, I actually seem to remember some had him leading. So we know that for whatever reason Duran did what he did, it was not because he was unable. If you are implying that Duran was getting whooped, you have your own deep end. Yes on the Leonard benitez fight. As a matter of fact a trained and ready benitez would have most certainly fought better.

Conversely, the same can be said about the first fight as well...as there are also many people ( I am not one of them ) who feel Leonard won the first fight or at least deserved a draw...

I implied nothing...if you had read carefully you would have seen that the "whooped" comment was not made by me but by another poster...i was simply replying to an earlier post...

You said Duran had his reasons for quitting which are unknown...Then in the next breath you say he didn't quit because he was unable...So which is it? If his reasons for quitting are unknown you can't then eliminate reasonable possibilities...

[Mugwump]

SRL was a winner. PERIOD. That's what "sports" are all about. How you win, doesn't matter; just win. People can make excuses and ponder why Duran said no mas but he had never said no mas before. If he didn't take Ray seriously, that's his own fault. He said immediately after the first fight that he knew a rematch would happen. So, why didn't he watch his weight in between fights? Discipline, that's why. SRL was a SERIOUS fighter who you didn't have to tell this to. He knew to stay in shape in between fights and not blow up. It's common sense for a fighter to do that, if they want to maintain their level. Nomatter what Duran showed up in the rematch, he wasn't beating Ray. Ray was a better overall fighter than Duran ever was. He could do more in the ring.

I don't see how any of the above changes the fact that in the first fight Leonard (contrary to popular opinion) threw everything at Duran with a performance good enough IN DEFEAT to beat any other fighter. And yet he lost to a fighter who (contrary to popular opinion) demonstrated as much boxing SKILL as he showed aggression and determination. But the popular narrative still says Leonard LOST that fight rather than Duran won it.

I won't condone Duran's actions in the second, just as I won't detract from Leonard's excellent performance.

But Duran deserves more than to be labelled lucky and a quitter. It's not fair.

[GOD-FR33]

I don't see how any of the above changes the fact that in the first fight Leonard (contrary to popular opinion) threw everything at Duran with a performance good enough IN DEFEAT to beat any other fighter. And yet he lost to a fighter who (contrary to popular opinion) demonstrated as much boxing SKILL as he showed aggression and determination. But the popular narrative still says Leonard LOST that fight rather than Duran won it.

I won't condone Duran's actions in the second, just as I won't detract from Leonard's excellent performance.

But Duran deserves more than to be labelled lucky and a quitter. It's not fair.

Good post but everyone gives Duran credit for what he did in the first fight, just like they praise SRL for what he did in the rematch. Who said Duran was lucky in the first fight? He should be considered a quitter because that is what he did in the rematch. He gave up. Duran is arguably the greatest Lightweight in history. If Ray didn't make him quit, what did? HE was going to lose the fight, regardless. He got frustrated because SRL wasn't a punching bag. That's what I think happened. Duran was rich and lazy at that moment the rematch occurred. It's his own fault. He didn't want to fight that night.

[billeau2]

SRL was a winner. PERIOD. That's what "sports" are all about. How you win, doesn't matter; just win. People can make excuses and ponder why Duran said no mas but he had never said no mas before. If he didn't take Ray seriously, that's his own fault. He said immediately after the first fight that he knew a rematch would happen. So, why didn't he watch his weight in between fights? Discipline, that's why. SRL was a SERIOUS fighter who you didn't have to tell this to. He knew to stay in shape in between fights and not blow up. It's common sense for a fighter to do that, if they want to maintain their level. Nomatter what Duran showed up in the rematch, he wasn't beating Ray. Ray was a better overall fighter than Duran ever was. He could do more in the ring.

Duran was also a winner. you are delusional. Two great fighters...not one

[billeau2]

Conversely, the same can be said about the first fight as well...as there are also many people ( I am not one of them ) who feel Leonard won the first fight or at least deserved a draw...

I implied nothing...if you had read carefully you would have seen that the "whooped" comment was not made by me but by another poster...i was simply replying to an earlier post...

You said Duran had his reasons for quitting which are unknown...Then in the next breath you say he didn't quit because he was unable...So which is it? If his reasons for quitting are unknown you can't then eliminate reasonable possibilities...

You most certainly did! Yu quote someone to use their information to support your point, if this was not your intention then you need to indicate otherwise.

Are you on the slow bus tonight? yes I said his reasons for quitting were unknown but at least one reason was not that he was losing the fight....where is the contradiction exactly? You most certainly can eliminate reasonable possability, for example...I don't know the reason for global warming but it is not caused by polka dotted elephants.

[Mugwump]

Good post but everyone gives Duran credit for what he did in the first fight, just like they praise SRL for what he did in the rematch. Who said Duran was lucky in the first fight?

Hey - it wasn't me who came up with the excuse that Leonard threw it away and Duran was lucky to benefit from Ray's mistakes.

And I'm not the only person who's heard it used time and time again. Not by everyone, of course. But enough people to be memorable for this long.

[them_apples]

Conversely, the same can be said about the first fight as well...as there are also many people ( I am not one of them ) who feel Leonard won the first fight or at least deserved a draw...

I implied nothing...if you had read carefully you would have seen that the "whooped" comment was not made by me but by another poster...i was simply replying to an earlier post...

You said Duran had his reasons for quitting which are unknown...Then in the next breath you say he didn't quit because he was unable...So which is it? If his reasons for quitting are unknown you can't then eliminate reasonable possibilities...

those people are deluded to the extreme. Ray didn't win that fight by any margin.

Duran quitting in an even fight (leonard perhaps up one round) isn't as significant as a 12 round war in which Duran proved superior. They were both in peak shape and prepared in the first fight, there were no excuses.

SRL win is tainted by Duran himself, but it's completely foolish to disregard the most important fight of the 3. SRL did not show he was able to handle Duran, even in the "No mas".

[them_apples]

You most certainly did! Yu quote someone to use their information to support your point, if this was not your intention then you need to indicate otherwise.

Are you on the slow bus tonight? yes I said his reasons for quitting were unknown but at least one reason was not that he was losing the fight....where is the contradiction exactly? You most certainly can eliminate reasonable possability, for example...I don't know the reason for global warming but it is not caused by polka dotted elephants.

He 100% did not quit because he was losing or taking a beating. That's certain. The fight is on youtube.

[beez721]

Yes! Wilfred wouldn't handle Durans pressure very well and if neither are
highly motivated they would stink out the house.
A motivated Duran beats alot of people that are bigger, when not he gets beat.
Remember Duran at his best was a Lightweight!
Ray.

I strongly agree. a focused motivated duran was a beast of a fighter

[The Old LefHook]

Duran's quittage against Leonard is su****ious enough to be suspected. It really does look as if he broke script and refused to go out on his back. That is what a man from Mars who read up on boxing history and then watched the two fights would say. I do not have any more direct evidence than that man from Mars, but I have never accepted any of the several most popular excuses, and the whole thing has never smelled right.

Arcel withdrew from boxing once because of gangster influence. If he suspected he saw the cobra raise its head again in one of the biggest fights of the time, I don't know if he ever spoke of it, or would have dared voice his su****ions, but it must have crushed him.