Greatest Super-Middle of All Times

[-PBP-]

I really thought he'd have solidified it by now.

He could have by now.

Exactly. So many missed opportunities. Hopefully he's more active now that his promotional situation is cleaned up.

[New England]

who was the best super middleweight of the current era?


i'll give you a hint:

if you say carl froch, you are doing it wrong.

[New England]

motherf#ckers act like they forgot about dre.

[IronDanHamza]

motherf#ckers act like they forgot about dre.

SOG, The Prodigal Son has returned.

[New England]

SOG, The Prodigal Son has returned.

goossen's kids had me locked up in the basement, bro. i got out.

[New England]

i'm failing to see a compelling argument being made for froch being the best supermiddleweight of the era, nevermind all time. i'd urge anybody who feels that way to go back and watch andre ward and carl froch fight. that's an important one to go over, as it is the most direct means of comparing the two.


there's clearly a disproportionate amount of praise being piled on to some of carl froch's wins. bute, taylor, groves [in particular,] these wins are being overrated.



how can a fighter who clearly isn't in the class of the best SMW of his era be the best SMW of all time? it makes no sense, and is a conclusion that one can arrive at only through improperly weighing froch's wins.


froch lost to kessler
lost to ward.

he beat kessler when he was far past his best, and going blind.

lucian bute is the most overrated fighter of the last 10 years. he lost to liberado andrade by knockout. count to ten after the knockdown in their '08 fight, and you'll see bute reeling on the ropes like a drunk.

jermain taylor still thinks he's got it, and he's been done since before froch.

abraham. meh. limited fighter who was never going to beat a 168 lber with a good chin and some boxing skill [kessler, froch, ward, johnson, etc.]

johnson. wiehgt drained as piss at 168. he was an older man than dawson, and had been at LHW forever. he went to 168 for the money.

mack. drained as well, and garbage at his best weight.

pascal. decent win. OK fighter, but nothing special. very limited, but explosive, good chinned, and dangerous in spots. moved up to 75 in his next fight, and claimed to have issues with the weight. i wasn't watching his career at the time, so i can't speak much to that.

dirrell. should have / could have fighter. arguably beat froch, and did on my card, but i have no issues with a scorecard going to froch. dirrell clearly landed the more effective punches, but he also didn't behave like a professional.

groves. another supremely overrated fighter because of the laundry. went life and death with froch in their first fight. you can't talk up the groves win while putting down the rodriguez win. you just can't. they're a similar tier of fighter [young, largely unproven outside level contenders,] and ward didn't have to go life an death with his man.

[Rostov Papa]

JOey Zagz and it ain't even close.

[IronDanHamza]

i'm failing to see a compelling argument being made for froch being the best supermiddleweight of the era, nevermind all time. i'd urge anybody who feels that way to go back and watch andre ward and carl froch fight. that's an important one to go over, as it is the most direct means of comparing the two.


there's clearly a disproportionate amount of praise being piled on to some of carl froch's wins. bute, taylor, groves [in particular,] these wins are being overrated.



how can a fighter who clearly isn't in the class of the best SMW of his era be the best SMW of all time? it makes no sense, and is a conclusion that one can arrive at only through improperly weighing froch's wins.


froch lost to kessler
lost to ward.

he beat kessler when he was far past his best, and going blind.

lucian bute is the most overrated fighter of the last 10 years. he lost to liberado andrade by knockout. count to ten after the knockdown in their '08 fight, and you'll see bute reeling on the ropes like a drunk.

jermain taylor still thinks he's got it, and he's been done since before froch.

abraham. meh. limited fighter who was never going to beat a 168 lber with a good chin and some boxing skill [kessler, froch, ward, johnson, etc.]

johnson. wiehgt drained as piss at 168. he was an older man than dawson, and had been at LHW forever. he went to 168 for the money.

mack. drained as well, and garbage at his best weight.

pascal. decent win. OK fighter, but nothing special. very limited, but explosive, good chinned, and dangerous in spots. moved up to 75 in his next fight, and claimed to have issues with the weight. i wasn't watching his career at the time, so i can't speak much to that.

dirrell. should have / could have fighter. arguably beat froch, and did on my card, but i have no issues with a scorecard going to froch. dirrell clearly landed the more effective punches, but he also didn't behave like a professional.

groves. another supremely overrated fighter because of the laundry. went life and death with froch in their first fight. you can't talk up the groves win while putting down the rodriguez win. you just can't. they're a similar tier of fighter [young, largely unproven outside level contenders,] and ward didn't have to go life an death with his man.

Ward is definitely better than Froch but beating a guy H2H doesn't always make you ranked higher.

Even if you say those wins are overrated, and I can see the arguments, they're valid, it's still a better resume than Ward's.

But, it's close. I don't dispute it. It's between Froch and Ward. Froch is just unlucky that the #1 SMW is in his era.

Froch has been putting in work while Ward's been away, that's why it's debatable. If Ward was also it wouldn't be close at this point. Hell, chances are it won't be close when it's all said and done.

[joseph5620]

I don't think any 168 fighter has done enough to clearly lay that claim yet to be honest. 1 day I will say Froch, in another thread I may say Calzaghe and tomorrow I may say Roy.

But to be honest, all Ward has to do is make a few more defenses against top contenders and possibly beat GGG when he moves up and he will clearly be the best to ever do it at this weight class.

So whoever you have #1 now is just temporarily borrowing Ward's spot.

I still don't understand how Froch can be considered the best ever at 168. He's lost twice and should have lost to Dirrell in my opinion. His resume is not better than Ward's and I don't even think it's debatable.

Ward clearly beat him. You cant pretend that didn't happen.

[soul_survivor]

i'm failing to see a compelling argument being made for froch being the best supermiddleweight of the era, nevermind all time. i'd urge anybody who feels that way to go back and watch andre ward and carl froch fight. that's an important one to go over, as it is the most direct means of comparing the two.


there's clearly a disproportionate amount of praise being piled on to some of carl froch's wins. bute, taylor, groves [in particular,] these wins are being overrated.



how can a fighter who clearly isn't in the class of the best SMW of his era be the best SMW of all time? it makes no sense, and is a conclusion that one can arrive at only through improperly weighing froch's wins.


froch lost to kessler
lost to ward.

he beat kessler when he was far past his best, and going blind.

lucian bute is the most overrated fighter of the last 10 years. he lost to liberado andrade by knockout. count to ten after the knockdown in their '08 fight, and you'll see bute reeling on the ropes like a drunk.

jermain taylor still thinks he's got it, and he's been done since before froch.

abraham. meh. limited fighter who was never going to beat a 168 lber with a good chin and some boxing skill [kessler, froch, ward, johnson, etc.]

johnson. wiehgt drained as piss at 168. he was an older man than dawson, and had been at LHW forever. he went to 168 for the money.

mack. drained as well, and garbage at his best weight.

pascal. decent win. OK fighter, but nothing special. very limited, but explosive, good chinned, and dangerous in spots. moved up to 75 in his next fight, and claimed to have issues with the weight. i wasn't watching his career at the time, so i can't speak much to that.

dirrell. should have / could have fighter. arguably beat froch, and did on my card, but i have no issues with a scorecard going to froch. dirrell clearly landed the more effective punches, but he also didn't behave like a professional.

groves. another supremely overrated fighter because of the laundry. went life and death with froch in their first fight. you can't talk up the groves win while putting down the rodriguez win. you just can't. they're a similar tier of fighter [young, largely unproven outside level contenders,] and ward didn't have to go life an death with his man.

There is an argument to be made that Froch is the best SMW of his generation, that being the resume. Heck Froch fought Bute when he was viewed as untouchable and some had him ranked higher than Ward. Personally, I'm not sure if I'd make that argument, both guys should be ranked alongside each other, one place higher or lower than the other. That's how I see it.