Did Frazier deserve the 3rd Ali fight

[young_robbed]

Looks like you can't even read either because it's even in the thread title. It says "Did Frazier deserve the 3rd Ali fight" not "Did Frazier deserve the 15th round in the 3rd Ali fight". You're a complete imbecile who should just stick to NSB where you belong.

lol. Like I said before. It's a shame that's how you think. I spent most of my time on boxingscene in the history section. Give me a break with the elitist shït.

The question could be perceived as "Did Frazier deserve to WIN the third Ali fight" - that's what I thought this thread was about, since I didn't read it at all. Relax.

[BKM-2010]

lol. Like I said before. It's a shame that's how you think.

Yeah it's a shame for you that I look at the facts of the situation and see things the way they are. It's not my problem that you're a moron who can't read or understand simplistic topics.

I spent most of my time on boxingscene in the history section. Give me a break with the elitist shït.

You sound like a typical low IQ NSB poster who is always either trying to start trouble or lets his bias or hate for fighters come in the way of discussions. If you say that you spend most of your time in this section then it is an even bigger shame because it shows that you're unable to learn from great treads/posts. Atleast those other low IQ posters only frequent environments that fit their levels.

The question could be perceived as "Did Frazier deserve to WIN the third Ali fight" - that's what I thought this thread was about

In no way could it be perceived as that. The word 'win' is not there. Even I understood the title completely the first time I read it even though English is my 4th language. Your trolling tendencies made you rush things like this.

since I didn't read it at all. Relax.

And there is our problem.

[young_robbed]

you're rashing hard for no reason. That's all I can say to the "low IQ" BS.

[Ray Corso]

Of course he did and the fans wanted to see the best trilogy in the heavies in history!
Their styles and attitudes were perfect together and it showed up in a great fight with both champions beyond their primes but fighting harder than anyone you see in the division in the past 15 years!!!
Great fight from two ATG's and a great memory in the history of boxing. A sideline was Futch vs Dundee and that's a great matchup too.
Ray

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Of course he did and the fans wanted to see the best trilogy in the heavies in history!
Their styles and attitudes were perfect together and it showed up in a great fight with both champions beyond their primes but fighting harder than anyone you see in the division in the past 15 years!!!
Great fight from two ATG's and a great memory in the history of boxing. A sideline was Futch vs Dundee and that's a great matchup too.
Ray

Ray,,

I know you were around then, would you rather have foreman 2 or Frazier 3? Just curious. I got no problem with your post, so don't think I'm trying to biased towards foreman and trashing Frazier... I'm just fascinated by the late 70s scene, especially at heavy..


Where was Holmes at this point? I know he was Ali's sparring partner, but as fans that actually were there, where was he at on the ladder to the top?

[beez721]

Ray,,

I know you were around then, would you rather have foreman 2 or Frazier 3? Just curious. I got no problem with your post, so don't think I'm trying to biased towards foreman and trashing Frazier... I'm just fascinated by the late 70s scene, especially at heavy..


Where was Holmes at this point? I know he was Ali's sparring partner, but as fans that actually were there, where was he at on the ladder to the top?

ive always been mad curious of how a foreman ali rematch would have went down. did foreman just take ali too lightly and fight the wrong fight or did ali just have his number? I so wish they would have fought again

[Sugar Adam Ali]

ive always been mad curious of how a foreman ali rematch would have went down. did foreman just take ali too lightly and fight the wrong fight or did ali just have his number? I so wish they would have fought again

Yeah me too.. That rematch and quick rematches loke Leonard-hearns at 147,154 or Leonard/hagler, Tito-oscar... What would have happened.. Always fascinating to me

[Ray Corso]

My understanding was that Foreman had no return clause and once that was
understood the money match was set up and the pot got bigger in Manila.
Once number one contenders were met the champion turned to the best opponent who could help generate the biggest purse. Not unlike today except today many times the number one is refused a shot. (GGG vs Sergio)
There's always opposing federations but if the pot gets sweet they will sign in.
George was a pain in the azz to work with then he was moody and often was tired of boxing. Archie Moore was a settling calm for him but even Archie could get bothersome. As he did with Ali when Ali was coming up, Archie was an advisor/trainer prior to Dundee. Archie was a beautiful man but the old school guys could wear out people.

At the time of Ali vs George, Holmes was very early in his career I'll guess a dozen bouts or so, not ranked yet. I remember he fought at Boys Club his first 8 to 10 bouts and the original backers made their investments back and some profit and then Larry began to be self sufficient. Ernie Butler ran the show early than Giachette took over but after a few years it was Larry calling the shots.

I believe Ali would have rematched Foreman after Manila but then again he was not in prime and was glad he didn't. He didn't exactly go light, he was in with Shavers and Norton. Ali feared no one he was gracious giving rematches. He didn't have to go to Europe but he believed the World Champion had a home field advantage everywhere! He gave Cooper a shot twice and Mildenberger and traveled to their countries so the European fans could see him. He fought all over the USA too, he was a great champion who could make strategic adjustments during a fight and had the athleticisms to pull it off.
as a young man I didn't like Ali when he came along, his style was a poor copy of Robinson. His mouth didn't bother me because I could see he was drawing attention and selling out auditoriums. By the time he fought Doug Jones he started to win me over, he was so much better than everyone and I thought he could have beat Liston long before he met him.
I had learned he was sparring with Liston as a kid weighing 188-190 and Sonny couldn't hit him!!

A really could bout would be the latter Ali in with the second coming of George.
it would have been pretty slow but a very calculated bout by both. George as a kid could get up on his toes and box. He was very basic but he was athletic to a degree. At 6'4" 230 as a young kid he was a handful for any pro. He sparred with Ernie and a few other guys in Texas and they didn't come back!

So to answer your question money money money Frazier was the better purse.
Ali didn't think he had much left but as he said after the fight, the people who told me he was done...lied!
Ray

[BKM-2010]

ive always been mad curious of how a foreman ali rematch would have went down. did foreman just take ali too lightly and fight the wrong fight or did ali just have his number? I so wish they would have fought again

Personally I could not see Foreman beating Ali untill quite a few years down the line when Ali was getting very old and washed up. And especially not if Ali didn't fight Frazier for a 3rd time as he'd be more fresh, he'd box George's ears off if Foreman took a slower approach and we all know what would happen if Foreman would get aggressive again. Even post Manilla. Nah, personally this is one rematch I totally didn't mind not happening, I'm quite sure about the result.

[BKM-2010]

My understanding was that Foreman had no return clause and once that was
understood the money match was set up and the pot got bigger in Manila.
Once number one contenders were met the champion turned to the best opponent who could help generate the biggest purse. Not unlike today except today many times the number one is refused a shot. (GGG vs Sergio)
There's always opposing federations but if the pot gets sweet they will sign in.
George was a pain in the azz to work with then he was moody and often was tired of boxing. Archie Moore was a settling calm for him but even Archie could get bothersome. As he did with Ali when Ali was coming up, Archie was an advisor/trainer prior to Dundee. Archie was a beautiful man but the old school guys could wear out people.

At the time of Ali vs George, Holmes was very early in his career I'll guess a dozen bouts or so, not ranked yet. I remember he fought at Boys Club his first 8 to 10 bouts and the original backers made their investments back and some profit and then Larry began to be self sufficient. Ernie Butler ran the show early than Giachette took over but after a few years it was Larry calling the shots.

I believe Ali would have rematched Foreman after Manila but then again he was not in prime and was glad he didn't. He didn't exactly go light, he was in with Shavers and Norton. Ali feared no one he was gracious giving rematches. He didn't have to go to Europe but he believed the World Champion had a home field advantage everywhere! He gave Cooper a shot twice and Mildenberger and traveled to their countries so the European fans could see him. He fought all over the USA too, he was a great champion who could make strategic adjustments during a fight and had the athleticisms to pull it off.
as a young man I didn't like Ali when he came along, his style was a poor copy of Robinson. His mouth didn't bother me because I could see he was drawing attention and selling out auditoriums. By the time he fought Doug Jones he started to win me over, he was so much better than everyone and I thought he could have beat Liston long before he met him.
I had learned he was sparring with Liston as a kid weighing 188-190 and Sonny couldn't hit him!!

A really could bout would be the latter Ali in with the second coming of George.
it would have been pretty slow but a very calculated bout by both. George as a kid could get up on his toes and box. He was very basic but he was athletic to a degree. At 6'4" 230 as a young kid he was a handful for any pro. He sparred with Ernie and a few other guys in Texas and they didn't come back!

So to answer your question money money money Frazier was the better purse.
Ali didn't think he had much left but as he said after the fight, the people who told me he was done...lied!
Ray

Informative post. However correct me if I'm wrong but the Rumble in the Jungle still remains the highest pay day for boxers in the history of the sport if we're taking inflation into account? I once made a thread where I calculated the biggest fights and Ali and Foreman got the most money from one fight I believe.

Both Ali and Foreman made 10 million in their fight which is 47 million today.(I just looked up the old thread)

Of cource that's only for the boxers and it's not counting the whole situation i.e. all the people around such an event who are cashing out.